Firearm shipping question.

[DiverDn]

Is a signed FFL required to ship a handgun to a private citizen within Texas? I want to sell a handgun and ship within Texas, do I need to ship it to a FFL or can I ship it directly to the person?

Sorry if this has been covered before.
Thanks

[gigag04]

FFL to FFL only I believe.

[Kalrog]

This is a private party sale? All happening within Texas? Then the law doesn't require that you go through an FFL, but you won't be able to ship a gun without sending it to an FFL (USPS / UPS / FedEX restriction, not law restriction). So that means an FFL transfer on the back end but not on the front end. Going through an FFL sure does cover your butt though.

[KBCraig]

USPS will accept long guns (no handguns) for in-state shipment between non-FFLs, but be prepared with the regulations, be prepared for a fight, and be prepared to have to go up the chain of command.

An FFL is never required on the sender's part, only the recipient.

Kevin

[yerasimos]

I have sent long guns out-of-state for gunsmithing work (by an FFL licensee), and had them sent right back to me (no FFL). Ownership of the gun never changed, and was never challenged, nor have I had any visits by ninjas or blue suits, day or night. Documentation was included in the parcel stating that services had been rendered (as opposed to a sale).

I've heard of some folks shipping their guns to themselves, from one address to another, to attend training courses (Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc). Edit: in my recent experience, UPS was not accommodating when I tried to do the same thing with a slide-action shotgun. :x

As I reckon it, according to regs & common carrier policies, it is only when a SALE or change of ownership occurs, involving a common carrier as an intermediary and temporary custodian, that the RECEIVER (the individual or organization taking custody of the firearm from the common carrier) must possess the FFL, or be exempt (law enforcement agency, gov't, etc).

Of course, IANAL, NDIPOOTV. Btw, if someone knows that this understanding is wrong, please show me exactly where and how.

[DiverDn]

Yes this is a private sale of a handgun all within the state of Texas.

Thanks for the advice.
DD

[KBCraig]

I did some research for you.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1065406

In general:

Handguns are not mailable except when both parties are dealers and/or manufacturers, or when the recipient is a crime lab (and a few other rare exceptions).

As for rifles:

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns

Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e. [C024.3.0]

I don't have time right now to delve into the cites, but I recall from previous research that long guns are mailable intra-state between non-licencees. I don't think it's specifically allowed; rather, it's not prohibited.

IANAL, and all that jazz.

Kevin

[yerasimos]

I have never tried to send firearms or firearm paraphenalia via USPS; rather, I have always used UPS & Fedex. I know the USPS has chronic hoplophobia (stay far away), and I have never been hassled by the private, non-gov't carriers for these types of shipments.

I think UPS's policy is to always move handgun shipments via pricey, next-day air service. I remember some news stories a few years ago of some UPS workers helping themselves to handguns being shipped via slower service, ie 2nd day or ground. Some see the next-day air policy as punitive treatment of gunowners by UPS. I do not work at UPS or anywhere within the logistics industry. But looking at this practically, this policy may help minimize the window of opportunity for thievery, because the parcel is hustled through the network faster, and not allowed to sit around in a relatively unsecure warehouse for very long. Not coincidentally, this minimization of thievery limits their liability. And I am certain UPS is not complaining about the extra money they make from charging for next-day service. I would be very surprised if they were pro-2A.

Picture someone with a $50 or $100 in one hand, holding a handgun by the bottom of the stocks with two fingers in the other (as you would a dirty diaper), their wide-eyed gaze shifting back and forth between the two, trying to make a decision, then speed-walking 40 yards from start to finish while closing their eyes and holding their breath. That's my general idea of UPS/Fedex/DHL handling firearms. (USPS is the same way, except they are likely to scream "GUN!", drop the firearm, then ask you to pick it up for them.)

[dolanp]

This is a private party sale? All happening within Texas? Then the law doesn't require that you go through an FFL, but you won't be able to ship a gun without sending it to an FFL (USPS / UPS / FedEX restriction, not law restriction). So that means an FFL transfer on the back end but not on the front end. Going through an FFL sure does cover your butt though.

This is correct. It is technically lawful to ship within the same state, however you will have to fight tooth and nail to get one of the carriers to actually do it because they almost never know the regs.

[BobCat]

Sent a rifle to my brother, also in Texas (both of us in-state) by USPS. The lady at the post office knew the regs, she was totally calm and businesslike, and there was no problem at all.

USPS regs are on the web. Can't ship handguns by USPS, but long guns, intra-state, are ok.

Regards,
Andrew