CHL for Houston Teachers

[jmra]

It would be great if Teachers were only in the classroom. My Daughter is a first grade teacher and she is in the classroom, lunchroom, "specials" room, playground.....She said that EVERY practice lockdown was pre-announced and ALL kids were in their homeroom at the time of the practice. In reality, some of her kids could be in the restroom, going to the clinic, etc, and she would be hard pressed to lock them out of the room. She said the district has not covered what she should do if they were NOT in their classroom and bad things started to happen. They all line up in the halls at the end of the day to go home. Some go on the bus, some walk, some have parents pick them up. There is alot of opportunity for "what-if"scenario training. I was a Federal Flight Deck Officer before I retired from Delta Air Lines. We had VERY specific ROE and we were not allowed to leave the cockpit during a threat. We trained for different scenarios but 99% was for protecting the cockpit.

That will change. Most schools are currently undergoing security audits to address these very things.

[baldeagle]

Getting these teachers the plastic in their hands is great, but what about getting them trained?

I sincerely hope that these Houston area school district police departments are planning ahead for all these packing teachers. It seems likely that the Texas legislature is going to change the landscape of what a "Gun Free Zone" is and some sort of plan needs to be in place.

Similar to fire drills, teachers need to already have a plan in place for when those loud booms start happening.

To my way of thinking, teachers would have one job to do in an active shooter situation. Secure their kids and prepare to engage should the shooter come their way. They would not be in the hallways actively engaging the shooter. They would be in their rooms, with their kids, prepared to use deadly force if necessary. This should include planning that would place the teacher in a position to surprise the shooter and not endanger her kids in the potential shootout.

Administrators and staff would be similar. Secure your area and prepare to engage if, and only if, confronted. If the shooter walks through your door or breaks it down, you should already be cocked and locked and aiming at the door. As soon as you have the target in your sites, fire and don't stop firing until you empty the magazine.

If you see the shooter pass your door, as soon as he has his back to you, step into the doorway, using it for cover, and open fire. Do not stop until you have no bullets left.

This plan essentially places traps for the shooter everywhere he goes, so he cannot ever know, when he enters a room, whether he will be shot or not. And I would publicize these plans. Let the potential shooters know, when you enter our school and walk down our hallways looking for kids to shoot, you could be shot at any time. Every door and every hallway presents a gauntlet for you to pass.

[jmra]

[Big Ben]

I completely agree baldeagle.

[Liberty]

Administrators and staff would be similar. Secure your area and prepare to engage if, and only if, confronted. If the shooter walks through your door or breaks it down, you should already be cocked and locked and aiming at the door. As soon as you have the target in your sites, fire and don't stop firing until you empty the magazine.

If you see the shooter pass your door, as soon as he has his back to you, step into the doorway, using it for cover, and open fire. Do not stop until you have no bullets left.

This plan essentially places traps for the shooter everywhere he goes, so he cannot ever know, when he enters a room, whether he will be shot or not. And I would publicize these plans. Let the potential shooters know, when you enter our school and walk down our hallways looking for kids to shoot, you could be shot at any time. Every door and every hallway presents a gauntlet for you to pass.

I don't buy into emptying the mag as a technique. Every self defense instructor I have met has always taught to shoot until the threat has stopped. In these schoolhouse scenerios shooting to slidelock unnecessarily would leave the good vulnerable to a second unknown assailant.

[baldeagle]

I don't buy into emptying the mag as a technique. Every self defense instructor I have met has always taught to shoot until the threat has stopped. In these schoolhouse scenerios shooting to slidelock unnecessarily would leave the good vulnerable to a second unknown assailant.

Reload. The point is you don't want to take any chances with a homicidal maniac. You don't want to stop the threat. You want to completely and permanently neutralize it.

[howdy]

Similar to fire drills, teachers need to already have a plan in place for when those loud booms start happening.

To my way of thinking, teachers would have one job to do in an active shooter situation. Secure their kids and prepare to engage should the shooter come their way. They would not be in the hallways actively engaging the shooter.

Again, Teachers can't aways choose where they might be when the BG comes in. If they have multiple classes lined up in front of the cafeteria waiting for lunch, they WILL be engaging the shooter in the hall. There is no place to take those kids with everything "locked down". We can all think of a scenario for a BG to go through the office sign in process and get into the secure area of the school. He might even be having lunch with his child. He might be a student. I agree with baldeagle in that once you are in a secure location, you defend that location. I would never open a secure door and engage the BG. You just might be outgunned and come in second place. That would then expose your kids to the shooter. Like I've read here many times...make him come to you. As we can see from this discussion, there are many views on the fine points. The major hurdle is getting the politicians to approve Teacher carry and to remove those insidious gun free zone signs.

[Andrew]

I don't buy into emptying the mag as a technique. Every self defense instructor I have met has always taught to shoot until the threat has stopped. In these schoolhouse scenerios shooting to slidelock unnecessarily would leave the good vulnerable to a second unknown assailant.

Reload. The point is you don't want to take any chances with a homicidal maniac. You don't want to stop the threat. You want to completely and permanently neutralize it.

BRAVO!

[Charles L. Cotton]

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

When the threat is stopped, you have acted within the scope of TPC §3.32. Do more at your own risk.

Chas.

[baldeagle]

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

When the threat is stopped, you have acted within the scope of TPC §3.32. Do more at your own risk.

Chas.

I understand that, Charles, but I would LOVE to see a DA try to prosecute a CHL holding teacher or parent for excessive force when shooting an active shooter murdering kids. THAT would be a get-the-popcorn event for sure. As we say in Texas, some folks just need killin'.

[TDDude]

When the threat is stopped, you have acted within the scope of TPC §3.32. Do more at your own risk.

Chas.

I understand that, Charles, but I would LOVE to see a DA try to prosecute a CHL holding teacher or parent for excessive force when shooting an active shooter murdering kids. THAT would be a get-the-popcorn event for sure. As we say in Texas, some folks just need killin'.

I'm with Charles. The primary and only goal is to stop the threat. Plus, it’s a proven fact that even with trained shooters, 80% of all shots fired in a gunfight miss. The teacher in emptying the magazine, now has all those extra rounds flying around the school, going through walls and such.

Stop the threat and be done.

PLUS - I hate to say this but I’ve always been a bit of a realist so here goes:
If the teacher is white and the BG is black and the BG ends up full of a bunch of unnecessary holes, guess who gets to be the next George Zimmerman. I don’t care how many school kids that teacher saved. Texas still has a whole sack full of liberals that hate our conservative stance on gun laws and will jump at the chance to take advantage of a tragedy to further their goals of weakening them. Painting anyone a vigilante through the use of excessive force would be an easy sell.

Once the threat is stopped, it’s done. Put your gun away so that the real police, THAT ARE COMING, don't end up shooting the wrong person.