Utah Teachers Concealed Carry

[Heartland Patriot]

My guess is that you could eliminate virtually all school shootings by merely eliminating gun free zones, and making CHLs "shall issue" and nationwide. I can drive anywhere in the US on my driver's license, no problem, and always have been able to do so since the day I passed the driving test a long, long time ago.

Anybody ever heard of one of these goons going nuts and attacking a gun shop?

Yes (1990 up in Washington state). Didn't work out to well for the bad guy though. He walked past a cop car parked outside and the cop that was visiting and the owner returned fire (one account says several patrons as well) and he went down with multiple shots to the torso. Died some time later in the hospital.

I'm going to tell on myself and say that I actually got a little chuckle out of that one. Yes, I know that any situation where one person has to shoot another isn't really a laughing matter, but I had to chuckle at the sheer stupidity of someone pulling a stunt like that in a gun store. Wow...SMH.

[jmra]

We are not counting on armed teachers as our school defense program.

<snip>

But if the shooter happened to force his way into a classroom where a teacher has decided that their life (and the lives of the children for whom they are responsible) are worth defending, then the attacker will meet resistance.

In all likelihood, if the shooter had already been active elsewhere in the building, the teacher would be in a defensive position, behind a closed / locked / barricaded door, between the students and the shooter, and give it all they can should the attacker gain entrance to the room.

I beg to differ. I AM counting on teachers as our school defense program. I want them to defend my child while he is in school and I do hold them responsible for this defense. In this case, by teachers, I am truly referring to all school personnel in general. We sometimes mistakenly think teachers are the only people in the school. This is one reason I am so strong in my position that teachers should be allowed to be armed.

I put my money (what little I have) in a bank with armed guards to protect it. I put valuable documents in a bank safety deposit box for the same reason. I value my children more than any amount of money or documents. Why would I not want them to be guarded by armed guards who feel responsible for their defense?

Your argument about how to defend the children, such as search out the shooter or blockade the door to their room are merely questions of tactics. I agree that a teacher in a room full of children should probably blockade the door and take a strong defensive position while trying to maneuver the children into a safer spot (much like the one teacher did at Newtown, hiding the children in the closet). But we are missing the fact that no teacher is with the children the whole time they are in school. A certain number are always on a break, in the office, preparing for class, lunch, etc. I would expect them to respond in some way also.

One of the reasons I have always recommended CHLs is that it takes too long for the police to respond. The quickest response in a school will be by the school personnel. It could be a teacher who is not with the class at the minute, an administrator, a police officer assigned to the campus, or a volunteer parent allowed to carry. In any case, I do think the school system is responsible for the safety of the children in their care and we MUST make sure the administration is aware of this responsibility.

3 staff members responded to the shooting at Sandy Hook. All 3 died. Would have been nice if they had at least a fighting chance.

[bnc]

Utah Shooting Sports Council offered free CHL training to teachers, a couple hundred show up (an order of magnitude more than usual). Some encouraging comments as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -Hook.html

[Birdie]

Well let's throw another wrench into this. Under current Texas law, if a group is charged with the protection of others then the DPS requires a security license. This same law makes a "team" of Chl holders providing protection at a church illegal.
Interesting enough law makes it illegal for a Chl holder who is a licensed private investigator to carry a firearm while acting as a private investigator..
Our own state makes it harder to defend ourselves depending on how we are titled at the moment.

The idea is NOT to equip teachers as an organized armed response!!!

Respectfully, you're missing the argument. I also encourage CHL advocates to stop with the "a CHL could stop a mass murder". Maybe they could. Maybe they wouldn't. We are not counting on armed teachers as our school defense program.

The POINT is that - at the very minute a firearm turns in the direction of one individual teacher, that person should have the dignity to exercise a right to defend themselves if they so choose. If a mass murder is happening and the offender never engages the teachers that chose to arm themselves, he would likely continue unopposed until the police arrive (and finally get around to deciding to enter the building).

But if the shooter happened to force his way into a classroom where a teacher has decided that their life (and the lives of the children for whom they are responsible) are worth defending, then the attacker will meet resistance.

In all likelihood, if the shooter had already been active elsewhere in the building, the teacher would be in a defensive position, behind a closed / locked / barricaded door, between the students and the shooter, and give it all they can should the attacker gain entrance to the room.

Yeah, 10 hours is more than sufficient for that. Four hours is more than sufficient for that. Many will voluntarily choose to get additional tactical training. Good for them if they do.

If you value the sanctity of life and the dignity of self defense, you have to see that allowing CHLers - teachers, administrators, and parents included - to carry in school is the right thing to do. It's a moral imperative. The only additional restriction I could back is to enforce on-body carrying in schools. That's it. Otherwise, allow unfettered access for CHLers to all school grounds, whether they are employees or not.

This.

As it stands now, the best I could do is lock my door, move the kids away from door, and turn out the lights. If someone came through the door with a weapon, all I would have to stop them is a stapler. I wouldn't want all teachers or school staff to carry. I wouldn't go "hunting" for a shooter and leave my kids alone in the room. I simply think that if someone is licensed to carry outside the building, they should be allowed to carry inside it, too.