Considering Federal Law Enforcement Service...opinions?

[equin]

With a geology and mathematics degree, I figure you could probably make multiple times more working for the petroleum industry than the federal government, but I commend your desire to serve our country rather than your own pecuniary interests. Unfortunately, the federal government is broke, and getting hired on is getting harder than ever, and I suspect it will continue to get harder than ever for years, if not decades to come. Not only that, if you do get hired on, be prepared to be vilified and hated by some in the pubic who simply hate the government (because it's the "in thing" now) and who will view you with disdain and as nothing more than a jack-booted thug, especially if you work in law enforcement.

I've never worked as a law enforcement officer, but in the mid-90's I worked in federal law enforcement as a civil prosecutor for the INS (before it changed to ICE) handling drug trafficking and alien smuggling cases in immigration court. I routinely put on the witness stand Border Patrol Agents, Customs Officers, K-9 Officers, INS Deportation Officers, INS Special Agents and INS undercover special agents. I noticed a distinct difference in the presentation and preparation of the INS deportation officers and special agents compared to the other officers. Compared to the other officers, in which most had little or some college, the Deportation Officers and Special Agents were required to have college degrees and some even had master's degrees. Their testimony was always much more articulate and the immigration judges routinely gave them more credibility than the other officers. Not that the other officers were in any way lacking. It was just a noticeable difference in their courtroom presence and testimony. Whether it was due to their education, training, or just mere coincidence on my part when I had them on the stand, I don't know.

Another thing you need to be prepared for is an extensive background check. I'm not talking about the cursory check given for a CHL license. That's child's play compared to what some agencies require. My check was done by the FBI. They wanted access to credit card statements, phone bills, medical records, and everything else that anyone of us would consider a full invasion of one's privacy. They even interviewed my high school teachers and most of the neighbors they could find for all the places I lived in the preceding 10 years. Those who were divorced even had their ex-spouses interviewed and were made to grant access to any records from any marriage counselors they went to. So be prepared for some intrusiveness and be prepared to go through a comparable background check every 5 years or so - unless that policy changed since I left over 15 years ago. Also, if you owe child support, your chances of getting hired on or staying on are reduced drastically, even if you pass the rest of the background check with flying colors. Same goes if you owe a lot of credit card debt, although I think they let you slide if you owe a lot of student debt. One thing about the background check is that you can always request a copy of it through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and find out what everyone said about you when they interviewed them. Like I said, each agency is different, so your background check may be much more or much less intrusive than mine was way back then.

Someone mentioned that it may be easier to get on board by going through the Border Patrol. Having worked in that field many years ago, I still think that's true. The Border Patrol Agents I worked with were top notch and most loved their jobs. They were trained to track and were experts at it. The experienced ones used to train the military on how to track. You also have to learn and pass a test on Spanish to become a Border Patrol Agent. But be prepared for some lonely and sometimes scary work. Unless their policy has changed, you may be up in the mountains at night all by yourself as you come across a group of heavily armed "coyotes" (alien smugglers) or "mules" (drug traffickers). Or you may be alone at night at some checkpoint when you come across a van loaded with what appears to be heavily armed bad guys. I've had two agents confess to me these very same scenarios. But who knows, maybe things changed since then and they no longer have to work alone. I just remember them being completely undermanned and needing a lot more resources, staff and personnel back then, but given how broke the government is nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised if it's worse now.

Most of the Deportation Officers I worked with were former military. So they were already trained in how to use firearms. But their jobs were a bit different - tracking and processing criminal aliens, most of whom were finishing up their state or federal sentence before being transferred to INS detention. They learned what all the gang signs and prison tattoos meant. At the time, they hadn't cracked the meaning of some of the Asian tattoos, though, but that was many years ago. Like the Border Patrol Agents, they were also woefully understaffed and completely overwhelmed with a mountain of work - heck, we all were. They also came across some really bad, scary dudes on that job, so be prepared for that if you go that route. I had a few threaten me but that's all part of the job. Lucky for you, you'll have your government issued firearm, hopefully a bullet-proof vest, federal self-defense training and the cadre of other officers by your side most of the time during the day if you're ever threatened. I had none of that, but fortunately none of their threats were ever carried out. Also be prepared to have a price on your head - we were informed by the FBI that we all had prices on our head from a particular drug cartel that fortunately was broken up since I left that line of work.

Good luck and hope you find a good job!

[txjim42]

I would highly recommend getting on with a state or local agency for about 3 years first. Make it a big one, and shine.

You will learn skills and tactics in dealing with people that can't be trained at the federal level.

My researched conclusions on FLEO: The hours are long and you will move a lot, especially if you promote. Quality of life in regards to time is better at the state and local level. However, the money is better after a few years at the federal level. Also, feds are more limited in how they work. They often times work through the state/local agency as their tac teams are faster to mobilize, and warrants faster to obtain.

All that said, there are some really cool assignments at the fed level. If you find the right wife and can make the family thing work, I recommend going state/local first, excel there and get some investigations experience, and then you'll be that much ahead of other applicants going for the FLEO jobs. The guys that I worked alongside that went federal all still say that the real fun is on patrol at the local/state level, so take that for what it is worth.

Check out http://www.realpolice.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for more info.

I think Giga speaks the truth. I worked for the IRS in a regional office as a computer tech in what is now TIGTA for around 9 years in the 80's/90's and I'd say the majority of the agents there had previous local/state/military experience. Some were recruited right out of school, but I sure didn't see that many. Competition for jobs beyond GS-13 was tough. GS-13 wasn't a given back then either. Most promotions were gained super-stars, the eternally patient career employee(or they capped at the gs step level) or by those willing to move around, often to the D.C. area and then to other parts of the country to move up from there. SAC's and Branch Chiefs were some of the most divorced people I ever met. I think it at least one maybe two divorces was a prerequisite for a SS management level jobs. Those guys had were rode hard. Again, high numbers of management were prior LEO/military.

Even though the bulk of the work was white-collar crime, there was plenty of it and plenty of hours right along with it and not the 8-5 kind. "Executive detail" spilled over to the local guys occasionally when the SS needed bodies to help with visitors. They did get "premium-pay" a small percentage above the normal GS salary, along earning full retirement benefits after 20 years instead of 30. Don't know if that stands today though. The benefits were great (back then). Most of the folks were great, with an occasional lemon, but they didn't usually last long. Had the opportunity to meet and work with LEO from many state, local and federal agencies as well as various contract agencies like Mitre, organizations like IACIS. Met some really sharp cookies at FLETC. I haven't looked in a while, but I believe the GS pay scale has been locked down for a few years without change. It used to change annually with adjustments for locality. I suspect that's suspended as well.

Getting in is half the battle. Having prior experience helps and 3-4 years sounds about right. Being a Vet helps. Once you are in other doors open to you should you decide you want to move along. Note the number of job req's on USAJOBs open to "Current federal employees..." Shop around. There are a number of agencies with FLEO divisions, not just the big names you see on TV. Although, it would be kind cool to work for the NSA so you can tell people that you can't tell them what you do for a living. :)

[txjim42]

Not only that, if you do get hired on, be prepared to be vilified and hated by some in the pubic who simply hate the government (because it's the "in thing" now) and who will view you with disdain and as nothing more than a jack-booted thug, especially if you work in law enforcement.

Working for the IRS and the division responsible for internal security/audits, the disdain came from within as well as outside. Equal opportunity disdain. On more than one occasion I received sneers and ugly looks and I was just a computer monkey (more or less). I was headed up the elevator in the Leland building in Houston one time and I thought a 20-something employee was going to come unglued on me because I was in a suit, carrying black bags and equipment in pelican cases. The guy was dancing around in the corner of the elevator saying things like, "I know what you're doing here, you're not obvious at all..." I was a little surprised that he knew I was there to backup and repair the desktop computer for the SAC's admin, but let it go at that... If I'd been on my game I probably could've elicited a confession for something from the guy right there. lol.

[gordonramsay]

Thanks for all the helpful the info. I have done work for the EPA but as a civilian contractor. Making money in the petroleum industry just isn't going to do it for me. Besides with what is coming down the tech pipeline for petrochemical industries, the job outlook by retirement age is grim. Im glad someone mentioned forestry service since my minor is in Wildlife management.


Hopefully everything will work out. I did kinda always want to try and become a US Marshal.

[57Coastie]

Gordon,

As you obviously feel that serving your country is an honor, rather than something that makes you a "parasite," as suggested by another commentator, I will suggest another federal law enforcement agency for your consideration. The United States Coast Guard.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg531/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I do not make this suggestion to just anyone. I would never make it to someone who says that serving his country in the Coast Guard is a parasite -- he is calling me a parasite. There is no other way to interpret his insult. I have been insulted here for other reasons, and being insulted for political reasons does not bother me at all -- I may well have deserved it. But I have never been called a parasite before.

Jim

Edited for a PS: You may be interested to know that the USCG also has a path into the SEALs as well as does the Navy.

[jimlongley]

Personally, I consider federal employees as parasites on the rest of us.

Personally, I consider people who feel that way about my federal service, beneath contempt.

[RPBrown]

Personally, I consider federal employees as parasites on the rest of us.

Personally, I consider people who feel that way about my federal service, beneath contempt.

Well said Jim. Though he's not from around here, still no excuse. He doesnt realize how many people he may have offended here with that statement.

[n5wd]

... I'd like to join some sort of Federal Law Enforcement branch... I just want to serve my country like my father did during Vietnam(USAF 380th Bombardment Wing). I considered Navy or Airforce OCS but that would be way to drastic of a change and you don't really get that many opportunities compared to Academy graduates.

Aside from all of the suggestions, so far... if you're really interested in combining a law enforcement career with some sort of military experience, you might consider the various services' criminal investigative servies.

For the Air Force, it's OSI - Office of Special Investigations http://www.osi.andrews.af.mil/. They have both military and civilian investigators with assignments all around the world (not only at Air Force bases) and do hire non-experienced civilians as OSI trainees: http://www.osi.andrews.af.mil/questions ... /index.asp

For the Navy and Marines, it's NCIS - Naval Criminal Investigative Services http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx

For the Army, it's CID - Criminal Investigative Command http://www.cid.army.mil/

and for the Coast Guard, it's the Investigative Service (CGIS) http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg2/cgis/

All of the services are different, of course - I've known a few Army CID and AFOSI folks, and all of them seemed like they were happy they had taken the chance to move into the military's law enforcement/investigative branches.

[equin]

Thanks for all the helpful the info. I have done work for the EPA but as a civilian contractor. Making money in the petroleum industry just isn't going to do it for me. Besides with what is coming down the tech pipeline for petrochemical industries, the job outlook by retirement age is grim. Im glad someone mentioned forestry service since my minor is in Wildlife management.


Hopefully everything will work out. I did kinda always want to try and become a US Marshal.

The EPA has a Criminal Investigations Division and hires special agents to investigate and help prosecute environmental crimes. They often work with USCG, Army Corps of Engineers, USFWS and state and local law enforcement. With your math and science degrees, sounds like a perfect fit for you. Here are a couple news articles on some of the high profile cases they've worked on:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 721337.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Two truck drivers were supposedly killed by haz waste fumes according to the indictment)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... ulf-blast/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Problem for you, though, is that EPA's budget continues to get slashed and any future hiring prospects are slim to none. I'm guessing the same could be said about the USCG, the Army Corps of Engineers and definitely the USFWS, which is part of DOI, and if you've been to any National Parks lately, you can tell DOI's budget has been slashed big time. Come to think of it, pretty much every government agency's budget has been slashed, including law enforcement agencies, so it may be real difficult finding a federal law enforcement position, even if you had previous state or local law enforcement experience. Then again, I understand it's difficult everywhere considering the state of the economy. Either way, good luck.

[gigag04]

I apologize to the members who served in the armed forces here, and I do not consider them as parasites.

Who was it directed at then?

[Texas Dan Mosby]

With a degree in geology and math, you want to get into federal law enforcement?

Seems like a waste of talent to me, and I'm not being facetious.

[gordonramsay]

With a degree in geology and math, you want to get into federal law enforcement?

Seems like a waste of talent to me, and I'm not being facetious.

I understand. I'm just one of those guys that if not properly motivated, gets bored easily. I can say that even with my college courses. There have been a couple of classes that I find the lectures to be unnecessary since I do my own prep for the exams and still wind up with more than decent grades. I am always trying to find something else to engage myself in.....hence picking up target shooting, competitive skeet, trap & sporting clays....and things even really weird like building furniture from scratch, just to test my self. If my mind isn't stimulated it really sucks for me. I mean in the most extreme case, I read a Medical Microbiology Textbook for fun since I found it challenging. I never took a course for it, but still did the self tests at the end of the chapters.


Oh, and to the user who suggested Airfoce OSI...thanks. My dad brought that one up as well when we were talking.

[WildBill]

I understand. I'm just one of those guys that if not properly motivated, gets bored easily.

What makes you think that law enforcement, federal or otherwise won't be boring? It won't be like NCIS where you get a new case that you solve every week.