What ammo should I carry?

[liberty2014]

Howdy, I will be applying for my CHL soon and was wondering what kind of ammo I should carry. I carry in my car for now and keep hornady Z-max. The guy I did my CHL class through said it might be a good idea to switch to something different because in the event I have to use deadly force it might make me look bad because i was carrying "zombie" ammo. I know pulling is a last resort thing and is ONLY to stop, not kill so should I load 1 or 2 rubber or less lethal rounds at the top of my magazine? Any and all advice is greatly appreciated, Thank and Gig em!

[77346]

I carry Hornady Critical Defense (9mm). I think they have the same specs, except Critical Defense uses a nickel-plated case, which supposedly is more visible in low-light situations (i.e. easier to find if you drop them by accident in the dark). Z-Max comes in a brass case.

In my opinion, Z-Max is just a marketing scheme... a novelty. Unless the price is right, I wouldn't bother with Z-Max. Hornady also offers Critical Duty, but it's recommended for full-size handguns. Critical Duty is much harder to find locally (Humble area in NE Harris).

http://www.hornady.com/support/critical ... al-defense

[snatchel]

This is pretty common. Lot's of people, even here on this forum, will suggest that using anything "non-traditional" will land you in hot water should you actually use your gun in self defense.

That said, any defense attorney would show that there is zero difference between Zombie Max and other Critical Defense stuff, save for a green ball rather than the red one. Also, the case of the ZMax stuff is brass rather than nickel plated.

Other's have claimed custom duracoating, sights, lasers, etc., will also land you in hot water. I personally don't think it really matters, but i'm no lawyer. If you are concerned, shoot up the Zombie stuff and go get some critical defense, gold dots, or whatever else you want.

[Kadelic]

+1 for the Hornaday Critical Defense in my M&P 9c. I also think that the z-max ammo would be a non-factor in a case of self defense.

[daniel2002p]

In my XDm I carry Fedral HST 124 +P in 9mm.

--Daniel

[Heartland Patriot]

In my XDm I carry Fedral HST 124 +P in 9mm.

--Daniel

I carry the same stuff in my Ruger SR9c.

[troglodyte]

I'll pass on some pretty standard advice.

Shoot what your gun will eat.

The lastest greatest miricle magic bullet will do no good if it won't run in your gun. Get several different brands and give them a try. Then pick what works. If several work then great, you get to choose.

One thing to remember. Any quality round is going to do what it does, and nothing more. It may expand...or not. It may penetrate...or not. No handgun round should be considered a "man-stopper". It may stop them but on the other hand it may take several rounds. Depends on lots of variables.

Critical Defense, Golden Sabers, PDX, Gold Dot, and others are pretty much equal in performance. I don't have it at hand but I think I remember that several of the name-brand ammo use the same actual bullet.

Choose the flavor your gun likes and don't get too caught up in the hype. Some may be better than others but none are magical. You do your job, the bullet will do what it does, hope for the best, expect the worst.

And welcome to our little corner. Pull up and chair and hang around a while.

[Topbuilder]

Howdy, I will be applying for my CHL soon and was wondering what kind of ammo I should carry. I carry in my car for now and keep hornady Z-max. The guy I did my CHL class through said it might be a good idea to switch to something different because in the event I have to use deadly force it might make me look bad because i was carrying "zombie" ammo. I know pulling is a last resort thing and is ONLY to stop, not kill so should I load 1 or 2 rubber or less lethal rounds at the top of my magazine? Any and all advice is greatly appreciated, Thank and Gig em!

Rubber? Less lethal? No.
Leave that to the guys who have fellow officers backing them up with shotguns and AR-15s. I might also question your definition of "stop" because it sounds like you feel you are obligated to wound rather than placing a direct center of mass hit. If your life is threatened, and you are forced to defend yourself, remove the threat by shooting to kill. Let God sort it out beyond that. That is my opinion... I request further discussion from other members.

[liberty2014]

The reason I asked about less lethal is because when i took the chl course the instructor drilled it into our head pretty hard that we are NEVER shooting to kill. We are shooting to stop, if I can hit somebody center mass with a few rubber bullets to give me enough time to take his weapon I'm all for it. I still plan on carrying live ammo, just wondering if my first two rounds should be rubber.

[Reserve161]

liberty2014 - periodically somebody posts a similar question, like should I fire a warning shot?

I say, if you need your weapon, you NEED your weapon and a blank, or rubber bullets won't get
the job done if you are in that desperate situation where you NEED to stop a threat.

Note: Not shooting to kill, but to stop the threat. If the perp happens to die because of the
consequences of their actions, well, I'm sorry but it is me or him.

Now I've never needed to draw my weapon, much less been in the situation where I had
to shoot someone so it is easy for me to give "advice" -- I'll leave the real advice to those
in Law Enforcement or who have been there.

I have heard that the adrenaline and the situation turns your fine motor skills into jello
and that you are nowhere as accurate as when you are shooting at paper. I tend to believe
that so I need every shot to be able to make a difference.

It's a life-altering choice to carry a weapon. I think everyone has gone down this thought process
when making the decision what to carry, how to carry and under what circumstance THEY will
draw that line.

[TexasCajun]

If loading a couple of rubber rounds puts you more at ease and you're more likely to carry, then go for it. We all have to reconcile ourselves with the fact that the tool we've chosen to carry may have to come into play. And we also have to reconcile ourselves to the fact that employing a weapon may change a lot of lives in an instant. I went through the same mental preparations for carrying that you seem to be going through. That's great because there aren't likely to be any 'do over' scenarios out there. Make up your mind now about which conditions/threat-levels would be cause for you to pull & use your weapon because if the unfortunate event presents itself, there won't be time to think AND act. However, the majority oppinion on this site will be use live rounds and aim for center-mass.

I will point out that your initial advance plan

if I can hit somebody center mass with a few rubber bullets to give me enough time to take his weapon

has a MAJOR flaw. You don't want to get into a wrestling match with someone after you've drawn your weapon unless there is no other alternative. In any encounter you should be moving (preferably away from the threat). If you're not moving, you should be shooting. If you can't continue shooting, you should be reloading.

With regard to what type of ammo, use whatever will work in your gun consistently. There are lots of options available that use self defense, personal protection, or other such phrases on the box. Go with one of those if you have a real concern about the LEO investigation afterward.

And lastly, welcome!!! You'll find lots of opinions on this site (if you haven't noticed that already). Don't take any of it personally. We really are just a trying-to-be-helpful bunch.

[Topbuilder]

"And lastly, welcome!!! You'll find lots of opinions on this site (if you haven't noticed that already). Don't take any of it personally. We really are just a trying-to-be-helpful bunch."

[Topbuilder]

The reason I asked about less lethal is because when i took the chl course the instructor drilled it into our head pretty hard that we are NEVER shooting to kill. We are shooting to stop, if I can hit somebody center mass with a few rubber bullets to give me enough time to take his weapon I'm all for it. I still plan on carrying live ammo, just wondering if my first two rounds should be rubber.

"we are never shooting to kill"

I can tell you that is not taught in all classes. Nor should it be. If you are defending your life, give yourself a chance to win. The person who is imposing that kind of threat on your life will not have equal consideration.

[thatguy]

I'll pass on some pretty standard advice.

Shoot what your gun will eat.

The lastest greatest miricle magic bullet will do no good if it won't run in your gun. Get several different brands and give them a try. Then pick what works. If several work then great, you get to choose.

One thing to remember. Any quality round is going to do what it does, and nothing more. It may expand...or not. It may penetrate...or not. No handgun round should be considered a "man-stopper". It may stop them but on the other hand it may take several rounds. Depends on lots of variables.

Critical Defense, Golden Sabers, PDX, Gold Dot, and others are pretty much equal in performance. I don't have it at hand but I think I remember that several of the name-brand ammo use the same actual bullet.

Choose the flavor your gun likes and don't get too caught up in the hype. Some may be better than others but none are magical. You do your job, the bullet will do what it does, hope for the best, expect the worst.

And welcome to our little corner. Pull up and chair and hang around a while.

Reliability and shot placement...

[MoJo]

If you shoot you are shooting to stop the actions of the aggressor. I've never seen handgun ammo with rubber bullets and if there is such a loading the size of the bullet would be so small and light as to have little or no effect in pain compliance. Shotgun ammo and teargas guns have rubber bullets that will cause pain compliance from the blunt force trauma they cause. These types of ammunition are not, I repeat, not non lethal, people have been killed with them the same as with conventional lead bullets.

Leave the rubber bullets, blanks, and less lethal munitions to the riot police. Carry OC, and/or a taser for a less lethal option and keep the handgun for serious business.