50 States Secede

[jimlongley]

I'm hearing that signing any of the secession petitions is a reportable offense if you have a security clearance, and the FBI is investigating all the people who signed one. If you have a clearance, it may be grounds to have that clearance revoked.

Also, the FBI may be placing all people who signed the petitions on a watch list.

I'm not worried, my clearance is so old that most of what was secret then is public knowledge now.

[VMI77]

Furthermore, unrelated to what I quoted, all this talk about secession over mere election results is highly immature. Don't you guys who support it realize you're saying that you're so uncivilized that you can't stand to even be in the same country as someone who dares to disagree with you? Grow up! If you want to talk secession because the federal government actually did or didn't do something (like that TSA-TX spat a couple years ago), fine, then there might be something worth talking about. But seceding over people voting differently than you is just nuts. Wasn't the 1st amendment put there to protect varying political ideas? And don't we claim to be the political group that loves & respects the entire US Constitution, rather than just the parts that suit our purposes?

For the record, I advocate the threat of secession as an extreme measure to attempt to reign in the federal government and force them to abide by the constitution. I advocated for this during Bush's term and not because of the result of one election. What this election did for me and, I believe, many like me is highlight the fact that the majority of our population is no longer interested in a government that stays out of our lives and out of our way. Four years ago, I was disapointed because I thought that most of the country fell for the "rainbows and unicorns" promises that spewed from the mouth of the infested pustule. (credit to anygun for that term) and didn't do any research into the man's beliefs or background. This time around, it is clear that 52% of our citizens who care enough to vote knew exactly what they were voting for and have caused me to loose faith in this country's ability to ever return to our founding principals.

Excellent, you espouse treason. If you don't like our ways, leave. Don't think you will ever, ever be permitted to drive this state from the Union. We settled it once, and will settle it again.

Nonsense. It's not unconstitutional and it's not treason.

If you tried to rebel, the FBI and the US military will beg to differ. And yes, its treason.

NO ONE here has advocated or suggested "rebellion." In fact, I specifically addressed the question and you just choose to ignore anything that doesn't fit whatever strange concept of law that forms your bizarre view about what constitutes treason. Discussion is only possible when the parties to it are rational and it is apparent to me that discussion with you is impossible. I'm restraining myself from saying what I'd like to, so I'll just ignore you from here on out.

[Oldgringo]

Just listen to yourselves....

The last actual seccession pitted brother against brother, father against son, family against family, etc., etc. I suspect the next seccession will do the same - except worse.

[mamabearCali]

Just listen to yourselves....

The last actual seccession pitted brother against brother, father against son, family against family, etc., etc. I suspect the next seccession will do the same - except worse.

I don't think any of this will have any lasting effects. Especially as dramatic effects as the civil war. However it does show just how fed up some of us are with the nanny state that is being inflicted upon us. I think the tone on this page went sour when people started calling the signing of petitions treason--pretty strong and serious language.

When I was in school and pledged allegiance to our country. I was not pledging allegiance to the name only, but to everything the country stood for. When the country's very nature changes to something opposite of that which it was it raises very serious questions that need answering. Recently I have felt like the Israelites in Babylon as a stranger in a land that is suddenly very strange and not at all what it used to be. I am still working out my thoughts and feeling on this and what it means.

[mamabearCali]

Just listen to yourselves....

The last actual seccession pitted brother against brother, father against son, family against family, etc., etc. I suspect the next seccession will do the same - except worse.

I don't think any of this will have any lasting effects. Especially as dramatic effects as the civil war. However it does show just how fed up some of us are with the nanny state that is being inflicted upon us. I think the tone on this page went sour when people started calling the signing of petitions treason--pretty strong and serious language.

When I was in school and pledged allegiance to our country. I was not pledging allegiance to the name only, but to everything the country stood for. When the country's very nature changes to something opposite of that which it was it raises very serious questions that need answering. Recently I have felt like the Israelites in Babylon as a stranger in a land that is suddenly very strange and not at all what it used to be. I am still working out my thoughts and feeling on this and what it means.

[jimlongley]

. . . When I was in school and pledged allegiance to our country. I was not pledging allegiance to the name only, but to everything the country stood for. When the country's very nature changes to something opposite of that which it was it raises very serious questions that need answering. Recently I have felt like the Israelites in Babylon as a stranger in a land that is suddenly very strange and not at all what it used to be. I am still working out my thoughts and feeling on this and what it means.

Thus, the desire to remove from the country that has become and return to the country that was.

A sentiment I can subscribe to, although I very much doubt that we ever will return to that ideal, if it ever existed.

When I was a child in school we got a liberal propaganda rag that we were forced to subscribe to, "The Weekly Reader" was supposed to be some sort of news magazine for kids, but it always seemed a little suspicious to me, and I feel that where we have gone has been much the way they were attempting to point us.

Of course I was always somewhat suspicious of school in general, too.

[cbunt1]

I'm on the way to the Emergency room to have my toungue sewed back on...I've been biting it for too long.

So I've got to chime in on a couple of things here...

1) The fact that anyone is ATTEMPTING to threaten citizens into NOT signing petitions (as guaranteed by the 1st amendement) is disgusting...and perhaps in and of itself a good reason to sign a petition REGARDLESS of what it is actually asking for (more of a "BRING IT" mindset?).

2) The discussion about whether it's treason or not has an obvious answer. The difference between traitors and founding fathers is success...

3) The fact that all 50 states have petitions going may very well speak of a desire to move back towards a United StateS mindset...which, interestingly enough, is what caused a couple of other revolutions throughout our history...perhaps our great country STILL has citizens with the will and backbone to right herself, without another full revolution.

4) Don't forget that the 1860's is NOT the only time in the history of our nation that we've been on the edges of a revolt. Check your history in the early 1930's...one of the reasons FDR was elected in a landslide, and given so much congressional support for the early era of the New Deal was that the people as a whole were so desparate they would try ANYTHING at all to improve conditions in the middle of a WORLDWIDE depression (sound familliar?) He wasn't elected "First DictatoR" as some have suggested--the legislative body pretty well gave him free reign...

Just a few things to chew on...i have nothing original here--just some observations along with some summaries of what others here have said.

[Ericstac]

It's not that any one state or person wants to remove themselves from the USA, it's really America wanting to remove themselves from the current administration.. If Anyone besides the current President had won this election we wouldn't have these petitions..

[The Annoyed Man]

It is interesting that prior to the Civil War, the country was often referred to collectively as "these United States." Post war, that became "the United States." I think that the increasingly overbearing government has left people increasingly tired of "the United States" and longing for "these United States." Whether or not signing these petitions constitutes indiscretion, I think that is what is motivating most people to sign.

[tacticool]

Just listen to yourselves....

The last actual seccession pitted brother against brother, father against son, family against family, etc., etc. I suspect the next seccession will do the same - except worse.

And evil men passing and enforcing unconstitutional laws doesn't?

[equin]

It's not that any one state or person wants to remove themselves from the USA, it's really America wanting to remove themselves from the current administration.. If Anyone besides the current President had won this election we wouldn't have these petitions..

Many understand the frustration and disappointment when one's candidate loses. However, to request secession because the other candidate wins on the grounds that the country has supposedly lost its values or is somehow acting unconstitutionally reveals a severe lack of credibility for one's political cause. It rises to the level displayed by a sore loser. Was the Republican candidate not given a fair chance? Were Republican voters kept from voting? Was the election a complete fraud? If so, then I could give some credence to those crying foul, but if not, then let's all do the sportsman's-like thing, take our lumps and wait to vote again another day. Does not the Constitution require the re-elected President to step down after 4 years? It's not as if he was voted to the position of monarch for life.

But let's try to put things in perspective. I think the Office of the Presidency, albeit a powerful and honorable one, is sometimes overrated and given way more credit than it deserves when compared to the true power of Congress. The President CANNOT PASS LAWS! The President can only sign them into law once passed by Congress, or can veto them, but Congress can still override the President. And as an aside, let's not forget that Republicans still control one chamber of Congress through their majority in the House. And if the President is overzealously enforcing Congress' laws or supposedly abusing its executive power, guess what? CONGRESS can shut down the enforcement simply by not funding it. That's right - Congress controls the purse strings, not the President.

I hear a lot of complaining about government spending on entitlements to Americans that don't deserve them. However, where was the outcry and calls for secession when the same entitlement programs were in full force and effect when the Republicans controlled not only the White House but also both chambers of Congress during the Bush Administration? Why was nothing done then to reform welfare and entitlements even further? Very little if anything happened on that front if I remember, and there were no calls for secession about that or the growing debt, either.

Others claim the country is headed towards socialism or some other un-capitalistic, tightly controlled market system. And I ask, where is the proof of this? The wife and I are hoping to start a business, and in my research I've seen nothing by any federal government agency hindering us to do so. If anything, it's the local and state governments, not the federal government, that requires business licenses, fees, etc. When my sister and brother-in-law tried to start a business in another country, they came running back a few months later in disbelief over how difficult it was. They returned to their own businesses in Alabama with an even greater appreciation for the business-friendly climate here in America dispelling once and for all any notion of trying to start any kind of business anywhere else in the world. And aside from business, what about professions? Does the federal government have any control in permitting doctors, lawyers, plumbers, engineers, barbers or real estate agents? Of course not. The states have that control.

How can the President wield much control over the economy and commerce when it is CONGRESS that has the exclusive power to pass our country's laws, including laws affecting commerce, free trade, taxation, and capitalistic enterprise? If the answer is by Executive Order, then again, CONGRESS has the authority to override any Executive Order if it so chooses, and even if it doesn't, the third branch of government (the Courts), has the authority to declare any Executive Order invalid and/or unconstitutional if it fails to pass legal muster.

Many of us also worry about the passage of another assault weapons ban. Again, the President has no authority whatsoever to pass a law bringing back the AWB. Only Congress can do that. The President can introduce legislation, but Congress can simply ignore it if it so chooses. And as mentioned earlier, Republican conservatives still control the House and there is no super majority in the Senate to stop a filibuster unless I miscounted the seats.

But more to the point on secession. If Republicans retained a majority in the House and a sizable minority in the Senate, how and why would so-called "secessionists", supposedly claiming to champion the Republican cause and its values, clamor for secession?

I've noticed political swings come and go over the decades in this great country. Sometimes, Democrats take control of the White House and Congress, sometimes Republicans take over and sometimes it's split evenly or slightly in favor of one party over the other. Aside from the checks and balances built into the Constitution with the three branches of government (Executive, Legislative and Judicial), we still have checks and balances between the two major political parties. Secessionists talk as if the Republican party was completely wiped out, when in fact not only was the Presidential election a very close one, but the Republicans still control the House. So knowing this as well as our country's historical political swings, why give up now and call for secession?

Again, I urge my fellow Americans to embrace this great country of ours, work within the system to lawfully advance your respective political cause, and leave this nonsensical talk of secession. God bless America.

[equin]

Just listen to yourselves....

The last actual seccession pitted brother against brother, father against son, family against family, etc., etc. I suspect the next seccession will do the same - except worse.

And evil men passing and enforcing unconstitutional laws doesn't?

Which "evil" men passed which unconstitutional law? Only a majority in both chambers of Congress can pass laws. The President cannot pass a law. He can only sign it into law, veto it or let it ride til it becomes law. And if he vetoes it, Congress can override him.

If the law is unconstitutional, the courts will strike it down if an aggrieved party brings suit. Have we so quickly forgotten the famous case of District of Columbia v. Heller?

And if Congress disapproves of the way the President is enforcing a certain law, it can either change the law or gut the President's funding to enforce it. Also, the courts can declare invalid the way the executive enforces or implements a law passed by Congress.

This notion that somehow the checks and balances built in to our esteemed Constitution have somehow disappeared is silly. Our form of government and our country are not perfect, as nothing is in this world, but I still believe they are both the best in the world.

[anygunanywhere]

Which "evil" men passed which unconstitutional law? Only a majority in both chambers of Congress can pass laws. The President cannot pass a law. He can only sign it into law, veto it or let it ride til it becomes law. And if he vetoes it, Congress can override him.

Pretty much the majority of laws passed during and after the civil war were and are unconstitutional. I cite all of the carpetbagger laws and especially all of the firearms restrictions in direct violation of the second amendment. The reason congress passed everything is because it was full of carpetbagger representatives and senators who were examples of the current leftist party, the democrats.

Anygunanywhere

[AEA]

If the law is unconstitutional, the courts will strike it down if an aggrieved party brings suit. Have we so quickly forgotten the famous case of District of Columbia v. Heller?

Oh yea?

Have you quickly forgotten about the SCOTUS and Obamacare ruling? And if you remember it......and how unconstitutional it was but still upheld........how do you think it will be when MaoBama appoints two more Justices?

[sjfcontrol]

In addition, Obama has flat-out stated that if he can't get the congress to pass the bills he wants, he'll go around them. And he has. He's ruling by Executive Order and by Regulation, rather than by Legislation. There doesn't appear to be any way to override that kind of activity.

Also note that he has instructed his Justice Department to simply ignore valid laws that he disagrees with.