Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton
Interesting question - is petitioning for secession protected political speech and nothing more?VMI77 wrote:Anyway, isn't secession a "varying political idea" protected by the 1st Amendment, just like collectivism? At the very least, the dissatisfaction expressed by the threat of following that process might inhibit the current bunch of criminals from overreaching.
The tipping point is when they actually try to do it.VMI77 wrote:Dave2 wrote:Furthermore, unrelated to what I quoted, all this talk about secession over mere election results is highly immature. Don't you guys who support it realize you're saying that you're so uncivilized that you can't stand to even be in the same country as someone who dares to disagree with you? Grow up! If you want to talk secession because the federal government actually did or didn't do something (like that TSA-TX spat a couple years ago), fine, then there might be something worth talking about. But seceding over people voting differently than you is just nuts. Wasn't the 1st amendment put there to protect varying political ideas? And don't we claim to be the political group that loves & respects the entire US Constitution, rather than just the parts that suit our purposes?
You have a point....up to a point. Where do you draw the line? What if the majority of the country voted for an openly communist government? Would you be OK with that? It's just a varying political idea, isn't it? When it comes right down to it, we've got an administration that has publicly stated that it wants to fundamentally transform the US and actively undermines Constitutional limits. Granted, various administrations have been chipping away at the Constitution for a long time, but there is a tipping point somewhere isn't there? After all, as has been said many times by many people: the Constitution isn't a suicide pact. I'm not advocating secession, and at this point I don't even think it's possible, but I fail to see how mere advocacy of it is in any way a failure to respect the Constitution. Where does the Constitution prohibit secession? Even if it did, the Constitution includes a process to change it, so with enough of the states in support, secession could be made Constitutional.
Anyway, isn't secession a "varying political idea" protected by the 1st Amendment, just like collectivism? At the very least, the dissatisfaction expressed by the threat of following that process might inhibit the current bunch of criminals from overreaching.
Something can be both "protected speech" and "a bad idea".Slowplay wrote:Interesting question - is petitioning for secession protected political speech and nothing more?VMI77 wrote:Anyway, isn't secession a "varying political idea" protected by the 1st Amendment, just like collectivism? At the very least, the dissatisfaction expressed by the threat of following that process might inhibit the current bunch of criminals from overreaching.
Or, would petitioning for secession be tantamount to offering to renounce citizenship?
Everyone has been given a gift in life...And warriors have been given the gift of aggression.These people, the ones who have been blessed with the gift of aggression and a love for others, are our sheepdogs Lt. Col. Dave Grossman 
Treason is a capital offense. Remember that. For every individual who thinks its a handy cool idea there are ten that will put you underground for being a traitor to the United States of America.canvasbck wrote:I signed the Texas one, even though it will mean nothing
Excellent, you espouse treason. If you don't like our ways, leave. Don't think you will ever, ever be permitted to drive this state from the Union. We settled it once, and will settle it again.canvasbck wrote:For the record, I advocate the threat of secession as an extreme measure to attempt to reign in the federal government and force them to abide by the constitution. I advocated for this during Bush's term and not because of the result of one election. What this election did for me and, I believe, many like me is highlight the fact that the majority of our population is no longer interested in a government that stays out of our lives and out of our way. Four years ago, I was disapointed because I thought that most of the country fell for the "rainbows and unicorns" promises that spewed from the mouth of the infested pustule. (credit to anygun for that term) and didn't do any research into the man's beliefs or background. This time around, it is clear that 52% of our citizens who care enough to vote knew exactly what they were voting for and have caused me to loose faith in this country's ability to ever return to our founding principals.Furthermore, unrelated to what I quoted, all this talk about secession over mere election results is highly immature. Don't you guys who support it realize you're saying that you're so uncivilized that you can't stand to even be in the same country as someone who dares to disagree with you? Grow up! If you want to talk secession because the federal government actually did or didn't do something (like that TSA-TX spat a couple years ago), fine, then there might be something worth talking about. But seceding over people voting differently than you is just nuts. Wasn't the 1st amendment put there to protect varying political ideas? And don't we claim to be the political group that loves & respects the entire US Constitution, rather than just the parts that suit our purposes?
Tell that to Jane Fonda.Wienerdogtroy wrote:Treason is a capital offense. Remember that. For every individual who thinks its a handy cool idea there are ten that will put you underground for being a traitor to the United States of America.canvasbck wrote:I signed the Texas one, even though it will mean nothing
If you don't like our system of representative government, plane tickets are freely available. Quit talking and start walking.
Treason, against the nation of our fathers, deserves no mercy.
There it is!gdanaher wrote:The 2012 secession movement is brought to you by the same folks who brought you the tea party. Really. Think about it. But instead of a crown whose head rarely changes, you get anouther crack at it in 4 years. Be patient, find a candidate that might be electable, keep him/her squeaky clean, and hope for the best in 2016. Give the people a reason to vote for your candidate rather than against someone.
If by "There it is!" you mean gdanaher completely ignores the growth of the Leviathan and spouts from the liberal progressive playbook by taking another swipe at the tea party folks, then we agree!Oldgringo wrote:There it is!gdanaher wrote:The 2012 secession movement is brought to you by the same folks who brought you the tea party. Really. Think about it. But instead of a crown whose head rarely changes, you get anouther crack at it in 4 years. Be patient, find a candidate that might be electable, keep him/her squeaky clean, and hope for the best in 2016. Give the people a reason to vote for your candidate rather than against someone.
Treason? REALLY?!?!?Wienerdogtroy wrote:Excellent, you espouse treason. If you don't like our ways, leave. Don't think you will ever, ever be permitted to drive this state from the Union. We settled it once, and will settle it again.canvasbck wrote:For the record, I advocate the threat of secession as an extreme measure to attempt to reign in the federal government and force them to abide by the constitution. I advocated for this during Bush's term and not because of the result of one election. What this election did for me and, I believe, many like me is highlight the fact that the majority of our population is no longer interested in a government that stays out of our lives and out of our way. Four years ago, I was disapointed because I thought that most of the country fell for the "rainbows and unicorns" promises that spewed from the mouth of the infested pustule. (credit to anygun for that term) and didn't do any research into the man's beliefs or background. This time around, it is clear that 52% of our citizens who care enough to vote knew exactly what they were voting for and have caused me to loose faith in this country's ability to ever return to our founding principals.Furthermore, unrelated to what I quoted, all this talk about secession over mere election results is highly immature. Don't you guys who support it realize you're saying that you're so uncivilized that you can't stand to even be in the same country as someone who dares to disagree with you? Grow up! If you want to talk secession because the federal government actually did or didn't do something (like that TSA-TX spat a couple years ago), fine, then there might be something worth talking about. But seceding over people voting differently than you is just nuts. Wasn't the 1st amendment put there to protect varying political ideas? And don't we claim to be the political group that loves & respects the entire US Constitution, rather than just the parts that suit our purposes?
The five "separate" sections would be states in their own right, and the senators thus "gained" would be beholden only to those states, not to Texas.AEA wrote:That Daily Caller article stated a good reason why Texas may be the only State with a shot at doing this. Good read.
Page two details how Texas could divide into 5 separate sections instead of seceding and immediately have 10 US Senate Seats! Harry Reid is prolly going NUTS over this!
Oh....he is already NUTS anyway!
