The collectivists are fine with imposing their Socialist vision on those of us who want to keep The Republic. The Obamabots just imposed their will on the rest of us who didn't want a Marxist president intent on fundamentally changing our Republic. They don't care about our hard decisions. If they have the power they will impose their views on everything from what we can eat to the denial of our right to self-defense. They won't care one whit whether we are willing, and in fact, are very likely to tell us to leave if we don't like it. And they don't consider us to be their "fellow citizens."atticus wrote:Recaf, Thanks for the thoughtful response. Nope, the founding fathers were not wrong. Thank goodness. But in 1776, there was no USA, only about 150 years of history as colonists / British citizens, living in America. Now, in 2012, the American people live in a country with over 220 years of independent history. My question is whether secessionists presume to impose their will on fellow Texans who might not wish to secede. Secession (say it happens, for the sake of argument) would entail its own set of problems in commerce and defense, for example. Do modern secessionists wish to impose those risks on the unwilling? And no, I'm not aware of anyone being forcibly removed from the former colonies at the end of the revolutionary war. But I am asking whether secessionists have thought about whether the unwilling should be removed, after secession. Either way, the secessionists will have put their fellow citizens to the very hard decision whether to renounce their US citizenship, or to voluntarily remove themselves back to the new USA. Should we put our fellow citizens in such a position? Especially in light of the history of post civil war America? And if secession were not a peaceful process, but instead led to hostile military opposition from Washington D. C., would secessionists care to be responsible for the damage to the unwilling and their lives and property? It's a lot of responsibility, and bears very careful consideration of alternatives prior to pulling that trigger.
Lot's of Loyalists fled the country after the Revolutionary War. Some had their property confiscated. Some were forced out, some weren't:
http://www.redcoat.me.uk/loyalists.htm
In rebel controlled areas Loyalists were subject to confiscation of property, tar and feathering or even being murdered. They could be arrested and fined for being loyal to the British, many were blackmailed, whipped, abused, threatened, and attacked by mobs of revolutionaries. So to be identified as a Loyalist was dangerous, meaning true numbers of Loyalists is not known, but an estimated 30,000 were either forced or decided to leave the thirteen colonies during the war and a further 70,000 left with the British troops when they evacuated held territory, in total about 5% of the population.
At the end of the American Revolutionary War and the signing of the Treaty of Paris in 1783, the treatment of Loyalists did not improve so those wanting to evacuate were resettled in other colonies of the British Empire, most notably in the future Canadian provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, that received in total some 38,000 Loyalist refugees. Also the Canadian Eastern Townships and Upper Canada in modern-day Ontario, received altogether some 12,000 refugees.
Others who left the thirteen colonies, 8.000 went to Britain, while particularly Southern Loyalists, went to Caribbean islands, notably the Bahamas, that received 9,600, and Bermuda, Jamaica, Martinique, Dominica and St Lucia receiving approx 2,500 in total
http://sciway3.net/clark/revolutionaryw ... lists.html
Treatment of the Tories. Some terms of disengagement were not carried out swiftly, if at all. Loyalists were often not protected, nor their property restored. By this time, the hatred for the loyalists was intense, very especially so in South Carolina where local depredations were dreadful, and the malicious and even barbarous activities of some loyalists during the war even extended to any who had not actively supported the loyalist cause. This explains why Levi Youmans was unable to remain in SC after the war! Thousands of loyalists were driven into exile and their property confiscated, sometimes under very harsh circumstances. Many of these people probably would have accepted the outcome of the struggle and made good citizens, but the feeling against them was intense. The American Congress promised to recommend to the States that loyalists be protected and their property restored, but Congress could only recommend, it could not make the States obey. It has been estimated that the States lost 100,000 loyalists by exile during or after the war. Most of them went to Canada or to the Bahamas.
Indeed, Colin Nickerson of the Boston Globe (Boston Massachusetts), in his excellent article of 19 April 1999 on Loyalists who fled to Canada, quotes Finn Bower, of the Shelburne, Nova Scotia, Museum in stating that "Our settlers (former Loyalists) came fleeing for their lives from up and down the 13 former colonies, from the Carolinas to Boston." "They were escaping mob terror." (Nickerson continued, quoting Christopher Moore of Toronto, author of "The Loyalists," a historical account): "These exiles had been threatened by mobs, seen their lands and possessions stolen in the name of 'liberty,' and given the option of renouncing their principles or fleeing their homes."
