Incorrectly displayed, but otherwise legal?

[GWE Chally]

Ok, couldn't find anything about this when I did a search...

I was at the Stockyards in Ft. Worth last weekend. I left my carry in the car because I knew that I was going to have a few beers.

We ate dinner at Riscky's Steakhouse. I did not see a sign when we went in the joint, but noticed that they have a 30.06 sign posted at the bar. The English version is on the left side of the bar, the Spanish version on the right... The sign was at least 1" letters in the standard white background and blue lettering. The language was correct as well.

Shouldn't the sign be at the entrance so that you don't enter the bldg then notice it?? I was with family from out of town, so I did not talk to the management about it, but it did seem odd.

Has anyone else seen this?

[RPB]

doesn't have to be at an entrance, just prominently displayed somewhere http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Shouldn't the sign be at the entrance

That would be a good idea, but anywhere it (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public is ok according to the law.

Please add it to the wall of shame locations at http://texas3006.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if it isn't there

==============================================

Couple weeks ago I was going to Seton Doctors' offices and Imagiung Center in Marble Falls, they had an 8-1/2x11 sheet of paper with the 30.06 language taped to the front door in English only, so I ignored it, down the hall, about 20 feet, on the left, was a compliant sign correct size etc etc hanging on one side of the hall, so it was a trip back to the car. (They also had about 40 more 8-1/2x11 sheet of paper signs, one by each door from that hallway going into each testing/doctor's office)

[tomtexan]

(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

Looks like it could go either way.

[GWE Chally]

doesn't have to be at an entrance, just prominently displayed somewhere http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Shouldn't the sign be at the entrance

That would be a good idea, but anywhere it (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public is ok according to the law.

Please add it to the wall of shame locations at http://texas3006.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if it isn't there

==============================================

Couple weeks ago I was going to Seton Doctors' offices and Imagiung Center in Marble Falls, they had an 8-1/2x11 sheet of paper with the 30.06 language taped to the front door in English only, so I ignored it, down the hall, about 20 feet, on the left, was a compliant sign correct size etc etc hanging on one side of the hall, so it was a trip back to the car. (They also had about 40 more 8-1/2x11 sheet of paper signs, one by each door from that hallway going into each testing/doctor's office)

Added

[RPB]

(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

Looks like it could go either way.

Except that that sentence is from
Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.
2) "Notice" means:

(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;

(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

not
30.06

and 30.05 already says
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and

(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

30.06 applies to licensees ...
Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
just requires the sign to meet the requirements listed in 30.06 and be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

[HooG19]

Except that that sentence is from
Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.
2) "Notice" means:

(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;

(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

not
30.06

and 30.05 already says
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and

(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

30.06 applies to licensees ...
Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
just requires the sign to meet the requirements listed in 30.06 and be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

One could argue that "public" would be anyone passing by the entrance. I usually quit looking for signs if one is not posted in the vicinity of the entrance.

[WildBill]

... just requires the sign to meet the requirements listed in 30.06 and be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

One could argue that "public" would be anyone passing by the entrance. I usually quit looking for signs if one is not posted in the vicinity of the entrance.

You might argue that, but I wouldn't.

[bizarrenormality]

I would argue that a sign in the restaurant kitchen is not really visible to the public but depending on the details a sign in the dining room might be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

[i8godzilla]

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

Okay, I am going to split hairs here. Seems to me that they had two signs one in English and one in Spanish in different parts of the building. If we are expected to obey the letter of the law this establishment should do the same. Not saying that I would just carry anyway. Would more than likely just leave as soon as I saw the sign. Not because I would be that concerned about the signs but I do my best not to do business with companies that do not welcome me.

[tomtexan]

The sign should have to be at the entrance without any exceptions. I don't want to get all the way into an establishment and be seated just to find out that I must go back outside and disarm. That would really irritate me. I want to know up front so I can make my decision then whether or not I am going to do business there with them or not.

[apostate]

Seeing as how it's almost Halloween and perhaps time to stir the cauldron...

If a restaurant printed the 30.06 language on the back of the menus, would that be a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun" and therefore valid written notice?

[Skiprr]

Seeing as how it's almost Halloween and perhaps time to stir the cauldron...

If a restaurant printed the 30.06 language on the back of the menus, would that be a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun" and therefore valid written notice?

IMHO, absolutely it would.

If you are presented--in any way--with any written document (card or other document) that contains specific §30.06 language, you have been given valid notice.

[Skiprr]

The sign should have to be at the entrance without any exceptions. I don't want to get all the way into an establishment and be seated just to find out that I must go back outside and disarm. That would really irritate me. I want to know up front so I can make my decision then whether or not I am going to do business there with them or not.

Unfortunately, the law doesn't support your preference. Signs at "entrances" might seem logical, but then you have the problem of defining "entrances."

I agree, in general, with your opinion, but the Texas statutes don't.

[TexasGal]

I wonder if they posted it at the bar with the intent of just keeping customers from carrying while drinking at the bar not realizing it makes the entire dining area off limits too. I think I'll call and ask

[Keith B]

Seeing as how it's almost Halloween and perhaps time to stir the cauldron...

If a restaurant printed the 30.06 language on the back of the menus, would that be a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun" and therefore valid written notice?

IMHO, absolutely it would.

If you are presented--in any way--with any written document (card or other document) that contains specific §30.06 language, you have been given valid notice.

OK, to split hairs again, what it the restaurant is like many now that only have the menu on the table and you are not 'presented one' by the server? I would say it would not be valid as I may or may not pick up the menu to read.

Additionally, since the menu contains various other pieces of information and may not get read cover to back as it is not required (i.e. and employee manual that you read in entirety), I would question whether it really constituted notice. If that was the case, the library could hand you a copy of War and Peace with the 30.06 printed on the last page and until you read the whole thing you would not have been given notice.