Two shootings nearby - Keller & N. Fort Worth

[PUCKER]

These both happened yesterday, not far from each other.

Alleged shoplifting suspect shot dead by police in Keller Kohl's store
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/At-least ... 75801.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KELLER -- An alleged shoplifting suspect was shot multiple times and killed in an officer-involved shooting in a Kohl's store Thursday in the 2100 block of South Main Street. (more at link above)

Fort Worth resident shoots burglary suspects after civilian confrontation
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Officer- ... 51971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FORT WORTH - What began as a burglary call in North Fort Worth resulted in a confusing sequence of events where two civilians stepped in to stop two teenage suspects before responding officers could act. (more at link above)

[ajwakeboarder]

I saw that keller shooting yesterday. the scary thing is my girlfriend was in the parking lot when it happened.

[Rex B]

I live about halfway between those two. Nothing like that ever happens out there.

[Crossfire]

I live about halfway between those two. Nothing like that ever happens out there.

Until now.

[ajwakeboarder]

yeah, I honestly can't say i'm suprised. Knowing what happens at some of the highschools it was only a matter of time.

[seamusTX]

This doesn't pass the sniff test:

Police say they received a call at 4 p.m. from the Kohl's loss and prevention department saying they had detained a shoplifter. When [the officer who shot] arrived and began leading the suspect to his squad car, a struggle began.

According to [the] Keller Police Chief..., the suspect threatened [the officer] and lunged for the ten-year veteran officer's gun. [The officer] drew his weapon and shot the suspect multiple times. The suspect was unarmed.
(This information copyright WFAA, quoted for fair use)

OK. Store security catches a guy shoplifting - which is generally petty theft (especially at Kohl's). They call the cops. The cops arrest the suspect.

Why was he not cuffed at that point?

People have escaped custody, assaulted officers, and drawn concealed weapons while being stuffed.

On the other side of the transaction, why would a thief, who at worst is going to spend a couple of months in county jail, essentially commit suicide by cop?

You can say he was nuts or on drugs, and maybe he was both.

- Jim

[knotquiteawake]

These both happened yesterday, not far from each other.
Fort Worth resident shoots burglary suspects after civilian confrontation
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Officer- ... 51971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FORT WORTH - What began as a burglary call in North Fort Worth resulted in a confusing sequence of events where two civilians stepped in to stop two teenage suspects before responding officers could act. (more at link above)

That poor cop... here he is rolling up to a burg call and suddenly his civvie passenger jumps out of the car after the bad guys. Then if that isn't enough a neighbor appears outta nowhere and shoots your two suspects. All before you even have a chance to put it in park and get out of the car...
I hope they don't discontinue the police ride-along program because of this.

[seamusTX]

Yeah, shooting when you don't know what's going on or who the actors are is always such a good idea. Pulling out a weapon during a police stop is an even better idea.



Maybe they should make the ride-alongs sit in back where the doors don't open from the inside.

- Jim

[ajwakeboarder]

These both happened yesterday, not far from each other.
Fort Worth resident shoots burglary suspects after civilian confrontation
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Officer- ... 51971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FORT WORTH - What began as a burglary call in North Fort Worth resulted in a confusing sequence of events where two civilians stepped in to stop two teenage suspects before responding officers could act. (more at link above)

That poor cop... here he is rolling up to a burg call and suddenly his civvie passenger jumps out of the car after the bad guys. Then if that isn't enough a neighbor appears outta nowhere and shoots your two suspects. All before you even have a chance to put it in park and get out of the car...
I hope they don't discontinue the police ride-along program because of this.

While I don't condone the neighbors actions, he was a prettyd decent shot. He managed to hit both suspects and didn't hit anyone else. He has a better record than the NYPD.

[PUCKER]

Regarding the Kohl's shooting, I watched the report on the news last night, the Keller PD Chief's words sounded pretty rehearsed (ie - basically what we learned: The officer was in fear for his life, etc... I'm not saying anything negative on this, just that it sounds familiar...and probably legally wise).

Regarding the neighborhood / ride-a-long shooting, watched that news report last night too. It sounds like the Ft. Worth PD might be a little "embarrassed" by being "outperformed" by two "civilians"...maybe? But it sounds like the non-LEOs were on top of it, just shooting from the hip with this comment, I don't know all the facts, just what I saw on the news and in the article.

[seamusTX]

The "in fear of his life" line is straight from the handbook.

I'm not arguing with that. Police officers, even the chief, are employees. They have to follow polices or land on the pavement fast enough to leave skid marks.

As for the Fort Worth incident, call me a ninny, but I don't think it's a great idea for non-LEOs (who by definition cannot recognize each other or coordinate their actions) to intervene in a police stop. The burglary was already thwarted. The use of deadly force was tenuous at best.

The guy who shot the burglars will be lucky to avoid a lawsuit. It probably would not be successful, but good lawyers aren't cheap.

Even real cops in plain clothes have gotten shot and killed by uniformed police intervening in crime situations. Pulling something shiny from your waistline, even if it is a badge, is a dangerous thing to do.

- Jim

[Rex B]

I'd be curious to know something about the Ft. Worth shooter.
He apparently

1 - Heard a commotion outside
2 - Went out to investigate, armed.
3 - Sized up the fast-moving situation, made a perhaps reasonable conclusion that lives were endangered.
4 - Ended the threat quickly and accurately.

Sounds like he's had some training.

[PUCKER]

Jim: from what I remember from the news last night (regarding the "civilian" shooting the bad guys) the homeowner shot the two bad guys as he thought the bad guys had already ran over a cop and were heading at him (or someone else, ie another cop, could've been the ridealong guy, not remembering everything fully), ie - defense of a 3rd person. All I can say is, if I was the person who's home had been "burgled" - well, I don't think I'd be crying that the bad guys had some new holes in 'em...

Regarding the Kohl's incident, I'm curious what kind of holsters that KPD has, as in retention holsters? Did the gun get unholstered by the alleged shoplifter/deceased, etc?

[PUCKER]

I'd be curious to know something about the Ft. Worth shooter.
He apparently

1 - Heard a commotion outside
2 - Went out to investigate, armed.
3 - Sized up the fast-moving situation, made a perhaps reasonable conclusion that lives were endangered.
4 - Ended the threat quickly and accurately.

Sounds like he's had some training.

I remember something about the news critters saying he used a .45 as well.

[seamusTX]

I think it was a lucky crap-shoot that only the "right" bad guys got shot.

I ain't running into a police situation with a shotgun when there is already a marked cruiser on the scene. Ask any cop you know if they think that is a good idea.

I'm completely in favor of non-LEO citizens protecting themselves and others when they comprehend the situation, but a chaotic crime scene is not really the place to have multiple non-LEOs running around.

- Jim