I do have a small bit of confusion though. I was told during my CHL class that if you shoot someone you ARE going to be arrested for Assault with a deadly and/or 2nd degree murder (if BG dies). PERIOD. It becomes a legal defense issue proving it was self defense and you get to sit in jail until it gets sorted out.
Far from being a sure thing (being arrested after legally defending ones' self), I would say the opposite is usually the case, based on the self-defense stories I have read over the years. Massad Ayoob and others certainly have pointed out horrific examples of where a good shoot has gone wrong (and for the record I think Zimmerman in Florida is getting lynched by a politically minded persecutor), but for every one of those I am pretty sure I have read numerous examples of the homeowner, proprietor, or guy on the street legally shooting/killing his attacker without being charged with anything.
If your instructor is peddling this line of thought, I would find a new one when renewal time comes.
One other thought and question; was your instructor soliciting you to buy prepaid legal services? I have seen this tactic to try and scare you into signing up.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Keith B wrote:One other thought and question; was your instructor soliciting you to buy prepaid legal services? I have seen this tactic to try and scare you into signing up.
Interesting you mention that. He had a guy from [Pre-paid legal service] come in and talk to us. I didn't sign up at the time because I don't make those sorts of purchases without the wife being on board.
Hello. My name is Red and I used to carry a .45. Now I carry a 9mm and it's getting easier to admit every day.
If the phrase "be arrested" was modified by any adverb indicating chance or probability like "may, can, are likely or even will", your instructor was informing you of what could happen. Using deadly force violates the primary statues against assault and homicide and you are subject to arrest and being charged. However the police may choose to not arrest and the DA may choose to not charge you. The police will almost certainly disarm you and technically, if they handcuff you, you are under arrest. What happens from there is based upon the evidence gathered by police including any statement you make and the judgement of the DA and/or the local Grand Jury.
It is good that your friend's preparation and actions allowed him to get through this violent attack unharmed physically and hopefully there are no lingering emotional injuries. This seems to be a clear cut and dried case of a valid use of deadly force in self defense as well as repelling a robbery so he should not have legal issues.
Reasonable gun control is hitting your target with the first shot.
Keith B wrote:One other thought and question; was your instructor soliciting you to buy prepaid legal services? I have seen this tactic to try and scare you into signing up.
Interesting you mention that. He had a guy from [Pre-paid legal service] come in and talk to us. I didn't sign up at the time because I don't make those sorts of purchases without the wife being on board.
Where in the DPS's syllabus is there a place for the [Pre-paid legal service] Guy come talk to the class? It sure isn't in the one I use. Stuff like that should be handled by simply passing out brochures or business cards. When asked, I always tell my students it is up to them if they want to pursue obtaining legal insurance.
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
He prepared.
He trained.
He acted prudently.
He's alive.
Perp is wounded and in jail.
Cliffs:
Truck in the next parking space
Perp jumps out, throws down on him with a shotgun
Friend is seated with one foot inside his Jeep Cherokee
Keeps talking to perp and pushing shotgun barrel sideways
Says he's getting his wallet.
Pulls his Taurus 709 Slim from kidney carry
Fires once
Perps falls backwards, drops shotgun, jumps up and runs
K9 finds the perp shot through the hip and hiding.
Friend goes home alive to his wife and kids.
Great that your friend made it out of this situation. The 709, as I understand it, is DA/SA. I assume he then fired from DA. This type of encounter is the exact reason you need to carry with one in the chamber. Pull and fire.
Jeremae wrote:If the phrase "be arrested" was modified by any adverb indicating chance or probability like "may, can, are likely or even will", your instructor was informing you of what could happen. Using deadly force violates the primary statues against assault and homicide and you are subject to arrest and being charged. However the police may choose to not arrest and the DA may choose to not charge you. The police will almost certainly disarm you and technically, if they handcuff you, you are under arrest. What happens from there is based upon the evidence gathered by police including any statement you make and the judgement of the DA and/or the local Grand Jury.
It is good that your friend's preparation and actions allowed him to get through this violent attack unharmed physically and hopefully there are no lingering emotional injuries. This seems to be a clear cut and dried case of a valid use of deadly force in self defense as well as repelling a robbery so he should not have legal issues.
I respectfully disagree with your statement "... and technically, if they handcuff you, you are under arrest." I agree that you will be disarmed and perhaps you will be handcuffed for officer safety, you will not be under arrest until so stated by the LEO.
In my CHL class, our instructer had a slide of procedures from montgomery county sherrif. It was giving to him by a homicide detective I know, and talked with him. The department protocall is arrest and process like it was a homicide. Even with that policy, it does not always happen. Crime scene can show very quickly it was self defense.
Arrest vs detention can be tricky and my personal decision is that I will consider myself under arrest the moment any physical restraint is applied and act accordingly. I base my statement about handcuffs being "technically" an arrest on my understanding of the legal decisions.
stealthfightrf17 wrote:In my CHL class, our instructer had a slide of procedures from montgomery county sherrif. It was giving to him by a homicide detective I know, and talked with him. The department protocall is arrest and process like it was a homicide. Even with that policy, it does not always happen. Crime scene can show very quickly it was self defense.
Technically, it is homicide (if the person is killed), so they should treat it as such. However, they should look at the circumstances and determine it was potentially justifiable homicide and take that into consideration on what they do to the person.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
There's a big legal difference between Homicide and Murder.
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
doc540 wrote:Just got home from spending a couple of hours with my friend.
He's doing well, but they took his gun until the investigation is complete.
So what does a good friend do?
I loaned him my CM9.
He said he not only didn't use his sights, he doesn't remember any loud noise or recoil.
He swept the shotgun muzzle away with his left hand, drew and fired across his lap with his right.
The perp saw the gun as he drew and began to step backwards.
When he fired the perp was moving/falling towards the rear of the truck.
It don't work like in the movies, friends.
Please pass along our best to your friend. Glad he was unhurt and that they got the scum that tried to rob him. Hopefully that shot through the hip and the upcoming time in prision should help make him think about not doing this kind of thing in the future.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
doc540 wrote:Just got home from spending a couple of hours with my friend.
He's doing well, but they took his gun until the investigation is complete.
So what does a good friend do?
I loaned him my CM9.*
He said he not only didn't use his sights, he doesn't remember any loud noise or recoil.**
He swept the shotgun muzzle away with his left hand, drew and fired across his lap with his right.
The perp saw the gun as he drew and began to step backwards.
When he fired the perp was moving/falling towards the rear of the truck.
It don't work like in the movies, friends.***
*Doc I always knew you were a Mench! Good on you.
**Not at all unusual in shootout situations. Auditory, and visual exclusion are very common occurrences.
*** AMEN!
Y'all be safe out there it's a mean world and it's getting meaner.
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
