Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional righ

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philip964
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#31

Post by philip964 »

thenick_ttu wrote:
gigag04 wrote:My advice to te officer and the woman, is to pick your battles carefully.
I have some what been supportive of this lady, sticking to her convictions, going to jail in support of the first amendment, etc. However.

On the other hand, making a police officer's job harder is really not in her best interest. Serve and Protect. Today that officer was making a little revenue for the city, which keeps her taxes low, but he was also keeping the traffic from being out of control. Without the police writing a few tickets everyday, traffic would probably go insane. Nobody likes traffic tickets, but it makes us all better drivers, whether we like it or not.

No doubt this same lady, hearing a strange noise at night, will be the first to call 911 to come out and investigate, probably at no time seeing the irony of how she picks her battles.
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WildBill
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#32

Post by WildBill »

philip964 wrote:
thenick_ttu wrote:
gigag04 wrote:My advice to te officer and the woman, is to pick your battles carefully.
I have some what been supportive of this lady, sticking to her convictions, going to jail in support of the first amendment, etc. However.

On the other hand, making a police officer's job harder is really not in her best interest. Serve and Protect. Today that officer was making a little revenue for the city, which keeps her taxes low, but he was also keeping the traffic from being out of control. Without the police writing a few tickets everyday, traffic would probably go insane. Nobody likes traffic tickets, but it makes us all better drivers, whether we like it or not.

No doubt this same lady, hearing a strange noise at night, will be the first to call 911 to come out and investigate, probably at no time seeing the irony of how she picks her battles.
I really don't know the motives of the lady. Maybe she thought that she was doing a good deed by warning drivers to slow down. I doubt that she was looking for a battle with the police or that she was making a statement about her first amendment rights.
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gringo pistolero
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#33

Post by gringo pistolero »

philip964 wrote:he was also keeping the traffic from being out of control. Without the police writing a few tickets everyday, traffic would probably go insane. Nobody likes traffic tickets, but it makes us all better drivers, whether we like it or not.
Wouldn't her sign also make them better drivers? :lol:

If she was standing in the street, I don't have a problem with them ticketing her for it, but they should also do the same for the newspaper salesmen, the beggars, the charity beggars, etc.
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#34

Post by chasfm11 »

philip964 wrote:
thenick_ttu wrote:
gigag04 wrote:My advice to te officer and the woman, is to pick your battles carefully.
I have some what been supportive of this lady, sticking to her convictions, going to jail in support of the first amendment, etc. However.

On the other hand, making a police officer's job harder is really not in her best interest. Serve and Protect. Today that officer was making a little revenue for the city, which keeps her taxes low, but he was also keeping the traffic from being out of control. Without the police writing a few tickets everyday, traffic would probably go insane. Nobody likes traffic tickets, but it makes us all better drivers, whether we like it or not.

No doubt this same lady, hearing a strange noise at night, will be the first to call 911 to come out and investigate, probably at no time seeing the irony of how she picks her battles.
Ouch, that was a REALLY SORE NERVE that you touched. My personal opinion is that speed traps sole purpose is revenue. As usual, anytime you mess with government revenue, you can be assured to pay the the maximum penalty. To wit: the speeders get a fine and the lady goes to jail. Hardly seems fair.

I'd like to see a show of hands of those for whom the fine for speeding is really a deterrent. I'm raising my hand and I suspect that perhaps 20% of the population who are equally cheapskate motivated will do the same. For most others, speeding tickets are simply the "price of doing business." OK, if you get 20 in a week, that could be a drag but there are a lot of people out there who are speeding, some of them significantly (20+ over the posted limit) who do not appear to dissuaded from the practice of speeding by an occasional fine. I promise you that I don't feel any safer when I drive through a speed trap. In most cases, it isn't a quarter of a mile down the road when the traffic speed is back up to "normal", usually averaging 5-15mph over the signs. So I highly question the value to public safety from speed traps. If equal enforcement were given to tail-gaiting and swerving among lanes, etc. that really cause accidents, I would be much more impressed.

IMHO, traffic is already insane some places. Somehow, the level of enforcement in those areas doesn't measure up to the enforcement in other areas where it is easier to issue citations. I fully realize that the individual LEOs are following the work direction given to them so it is not their option to pick where they patrol. It can only be PD decisions.
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tacticool
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#35

Post by tacticool »

chasfm11 wrote:I'd like to see a show of hands of those for whom the fine for speeding is really a deterrent. I'm raising my hand and I suspect that perhaps 20% of the population who are equally cheapskate motivated will do the same. For most others, speeding tickets are simply the "price of doing business." OK, if you get 20 in a week, that could be a drag but there are a lot of people out there who are speeding, some of them significantly (20+ over the posted limit) who do not appear to dissuaded from the practice of speeding by an occasional fine.
Another discussion earlier this year says bad drivers can plead poverty and get their fine reduced a lot, so large fines don't affect those people. The large percentage of irresponsible jerks driving without insurance aren't affected by increased insurance rates they don't pay. Some people fall in both of those categories.

It seems it's mostly the responsible people who work hard and pay their taxes who are affected. Being responsible, most of them don't speed unless conditions make the reasonable speed higher than the posted limit. All that to say I agree with you. Those laws are primarily about revenue, not safety.
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gigag04
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#36

Post by gigag04 »

thenick_ttu wrote:
gigag04 wrote:My advice to te officer and the woman, is to pick your battles carefully.
So you're saying the woman made an unwise tactical decision in using her right to Freedom of Speech? As in, she should have known that expressing her rights would land her in jail for a "bogus" charge by a LEO? I understand all you LEO type like to stick together but this seems to be a pretty clear case of police using their authority to get "revenge" on a civilian for no darned good reason... I would think any self-respecting LEO would be appalled by this type of behavior and yet this is at least the second time you have blindly supported an LEO when it seems the LEO was clearly out of line. This is the perfect situation for a :facepalm: smiley.
I think they both escalated the situation into something it shouldn't have been. I'm not sure how you construe my comments as support - and I'm not sure how my "blind support" for the officer is different than yours for the lady, but TBH, I'm not really that interested in arguing the point. I find the whole situation more humorous than appalling - but maybe it's because I deal with similiar issues on a daily basis.
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#37

Post by chasfm11 »

gigag04 wrote: I think they both escalated the situation into something it shouldn't have been. I'm not sure how you construe my comments as support - and I'm not sure how my "blind support" for the officer is different than yours for the lady, but TBH, I'm not really that interested in arguing the point. I find the whole situation more humorous than appalling - but maybe it's because I deal with similiar issues on a daily basis.
:iagree: ....to a point. They both escalated the situation. The question for me is did either of them do anything illegal?
If the lady had been cited with a pending fine, I might agree that it was just a humorous situation that would be resolved in court. But the lady went to jail. That pretty much ruins the joke for me. If there was basis for the arrest and detention, I say hurray for the officer. But that basis does not exist, at least for me, in the information that has been provided.

Maybe I'm too melodramatic, but when you cart a citizen off to jail, there had better be a good reason, based on the law. If, on the other hand, the detention was a bullying tactic, it should be illegal. I do understand that life is not filled with black and white situations and that we are all capable of poor judgement. There is an added incentive to get that judgement correct when it comes to things like free speech. I view the Bill of Rights as a moral compass on which the all of government should function. It is not clear to me how that happened in the case. I ascribe to the "trust but verify" line of thinking in these kinds of matters.
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#38

Post by tomtexan »

chasfm11 wrote:There is an added incentive to get that judgement correct when it comes to things like free speech.
Freedom of speech was the furthest thing from his mind in the heat of the moment. All he knew was that this lady had thrown a kink into his plans for that morning or afternoon and he was a little upset about it and did what his first reaction was. And that was to put the bracelets on her to teach her a lesson.
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#39

Post by chasfm11 »

tomtexan wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:There is an added incentive to get that judgement correct when it comes to things like free speech.
Freedom of speech was the furthest thing from his mind in the heat of the moment. All he knew was that this lady had thrown a kink into his plans for that morning or afternoon and he was a little upset about it and did what his first reaction was. And that was to put the bracelets on her to teach her a lesson.
I don't know what was in the arresting officer's (or his superior's) mind. I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm hoping if they knew something that the rest of us don't , it will come to light soon. If she was sent to jail to teach her a lesson, I hope she gets a lot richer.
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#40

Post by gigag04 »

AFAIK she was arrested for a TC violation.
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#41

Post by puma guy »

I think the fact she was taken to jail speaks volumes regarding the officers intent and mind set. How many people take a ride for a pedestrian violation?
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#42

Post by gigag04 »

puma guy wrote:I think the fact she was taken to jail speaks volumes regarding the officers intent and mind set. How many people take a ride for a pedestrian violation?
More than you would think, but not many
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Re: Houston woman arrested for asserting her constitutional

#43

Post by RPB »

I'm not on either "side" (I don't know all the facts, I wasn't there at the time) but I believe her defense to what they wanted to charge her with, but chose the "in the street" offense instead is:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /pe.38.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 38.15. INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC DUTIES.
...
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(1) that the conduct engaged in by the defendant was intended to warn a person operating a motor vehicle of the presence of a peace officer who was enforcing Subtitle C, Title 7, Transportation Code.
...
(d) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the interruption, disruption, impediment, or interference alleged consisted of speech only.

=========================================
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... TN.545.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TRANSPORTATION CODE

TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC

SUBTITLE C. RULES OF THE ROAD
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