NC: Ft. Bragg soldier allegedly shoots officer, self

[seamusTX]

According to news reports that were published today, a soldier at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, fatally shot his commanding officer on base during a training exercise. He then shot himself with non-fatal results.

A third soldier was wounded by a ricochet. All reportedly, allegedly, etc.

No motive is known at this time.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/06/a ... g-062812w/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Note: The Army Times is a commercial publication, not an official publication of the U.S. Army.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... g-shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[seamusTX]

The deceased officer has been identified as Lt. Col. Roy L. Tisdale of Alvin, Texas.



The shooter died Saturday of a self-inflicted injury.

The third man who was injured has been discharged from the hospital.

The shooter had what they call a checkered history. He had been accused of felony theft and aggravated assault of a woman. He was supposed to appear in court on the latter case Friday and plead guilty.

http://www.stripes.com/scratch/4/fort-b ... s-1.181808" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe someone who knows about military law can confirm whether being convicted of a felony in civilian court would be the end of a military career.

- Jim

[E.Marquez]

The deceased officer has been identified as Lt. Col. Roy L. Tisdale of Alvin, Texas.



The shooter died Saturday of a self-inflicted injury.

The third man who was injured has been discharged from the hospital.

The shooter had what they call a checkered history. He had been accused of felony theft and aggravated assault of a woman. He was supposed to appear in court on the latter case Friday and plead guilty.

http://www.stripes.com/scratch/4/fort-b ... s-1.181808" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe someone who knows about military law can confirm whether being convicted of a felony in civilian court would be the end of a military career.

- Jim

As this was an enlisted Soldier I'll comment on that alone.

Yes but, it depends, and the timing of said end could be swift with an involuntary separation right after trial, or at the end of the Soldiers current term of service (not allowed to reenlist), or later then that if some sympathetic set of commanders (would take at least two at company and Brigade level) felt the Soldier should be allowed to stay and reenlist.... IF Reenlistment standards are currently allowing said waivers for misconduct.. which changes as needed. (and then said end would likely come at the expiration of THAT reenlistment when a new set of commanders or reenlistment waiver guidance changed)
Small fact, it's only been since APR 2008 now that Soldiers E-6 and above and all officers are Required by law and regulation to inform commanders of ALL civilian conventions. . .
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corr ... 08-035.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part of the "it depends" response is the nature of the offence.. and the personal opinions of the chain of command...

AR 635-200 Enlisted Administrative separations; http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r635_200.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Enlisted separations regulations allow for a Soldier to be involuntarily separated for patterns of misconduct or a single serious misconduct.. further, many convictions requires a Soldier to be processed but said processing many times stops at the first level of review.

In example.
If a SSG or SFC were charged with a felony for say speeding on a public road, ... likely they would not be separated under chapter 14 Separation for misconduct. But possible denied reenlistment if under 10 years (after 10 years you are enlisted indefinitely which means till retirement or your retention control point) or recommended for involuntary separation by a board (like the one meeting now to separate 5000 plus senior NCO's in the coming 24 months)
That was likely a more in depth answer then requested, I can leave it at that or explain more.

The sort answer is.. If convicted in a civilian court as a Staff Sergeant for the crimes he was charged with, the likely result would have been involuntary separation under AR635-200, Chapter 14, or denied reenlistment or involuntary separation as required by a board that looks at large demographic groups for substandard, lack of promotion potential or ability...for removal

[seamusTX]

At this point I guess it's a moot question. It's now painfully obvious that the guy was a bomb looking for a place to go off.

- Jim

[canvasbck]

LTC Roy Tisdale was one of my friends in high school. He will be sorely missed........he was one of the good guys. His body will be laid to rest tomorrow in College Station.

The cretons from Westboro Baptist are planning a protest near the church where his funeral service is being held. They have already put out a disgusting flyer to advertise their protest. I'm firing up my bike and heading to College Station tomorrow to help sheild the Tisdale's from this idiocy. I know that the Patriot Guard Riders escorted his body into College Station today, I only hope that they will still be there tomorrow. Anyone else who want's to join us, please come along.

Anyone in the Alvin area, we will be meeting at the First National Bank (hwy 6 at 35) at 0730 tomorrow to head out to College Station.

[seamusTX]

The now-deceased shooter in this case claimed on a Facebook page to have dementia resulting from a head injury that he received in combat.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/07/a ... a-071412w/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note that this is only a report about a Facebook page, not actual medical evidence. I suppose a report will be issued a year from now and quietly buried.

As a general comment, impulsiveness and violent outbursts sometimes follow head injuries.

Also in Hutchinson, Kansas, Friday, a judge formally dropped the assault charge against the deceased soldier.

http://www.khou.com/news/national/162486346.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Heartland Patriot]

The now-deceased shooter in this case claimed on a Facebook page to have dementia resulting from a head injury that he received in combat.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/07/a ... a-071412w/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note that this is only a report about a Facebook page, not actual medical evidence. I suppose a report will be issued a year from now and quietly buried.

As a general comment, impulsiveness and violent outbursts sometimes follow head injuries.

Also in Hutchinson, Kansas, Friday, a judge formally dropped the assault charge against the deceased soldier.

http://www.khou.com/news/national/162486346.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

While as a veteran, I want any and all servicemembers who have sustained injury while serving to receive appropriate treatment for it, I do NOT want it to be used by bad troops to cover their mis-deeds. And as a former senior NCO, I can attest that while most of the folks in uniform are dedicated and hard working, there are always those few who will take advantage of the situation, to dodge work or deployments. I remember an NCO, before 9/11, who had dodged deployment for Operation Southern Watch several times by claiming back problems. Command level finally had to force him to a full medical evaluation, and he went to the desert to do his turn. Still didn't turn out that great, but he did go. And he did end up getting booted out of the Air Force, as well, IIRC. If the soldier who did the shooting had problems, that is one thing, but I'd hate to see them use excuses to cover for him if he didn't, that's all. Not only because it allows him to, in a manner of speaking, get away with it (yes, I do know that he is deceased), but it also puts the sacrifices of the others who ARE injured, because they went and did their jobs, in a bad light. Sorry if I ruffle any feathers with this, but when you see young guys and gals go that extra mile constantly and put forth blood, sweat and tears to make it happen day in and day out, a couple of bad apples will really steam you up.

[WildBill]

Also in Hutchinson, Kansas, Friday, a judge formally dropped the assault charge against the deceased soldier. - Jim

I never really thought about this. I know a civil case is different, but don't charges automatically get dropped when the defendant in a criminal case dies? I guess not. What about a criminal who dies on death row before he is executed? Does the State have to vacate his death sentence?

[seamusTX]

... don't charges automatically get dropped when the defendant in a criminal case dies? I guess not. What about a criminal who dies on death row before he is executed? Does the State have to vacate his death sentence?

I think what makes this case unusual is that the deceased man had been found guilty and not sentenced yet. The case was still active in the court.

Everything that happens in court is based on a finding a fact. They can't just drop charges because they read on a website that the defendant died. (Wouldn't that be convenient?) Probably someone had to get the death certificate and move to dismiss the case, to clear it off the books.

I don't know what happens when a death-row convict dies before being executed.

Appeals sometimes survive the death of one or more parties. The infamous United States v. Miller case that upheld the the National Firearms Act of 1934 was decided after Mr. Miller had died. (He was shot in an unrelated crime.)

- Jim

[WildBill]

... don't charges automatically get dropped when the defendant in a criminal case dies? I guess not. What about a criminal who dies on death row before he is executed? Does the State have to vacate his death sentence?

I think what makes this case unusual is that the deceased man had been found guilty and not sentenced yet. The case was still active in the court.

Everything that happens in court is based on a finding a fact. They can't just drop charges because they read on a website that the defendant died. (Wouldn't that be convenient?) Probably someone had to get the death certificate and move to dismiss the case, to clear it off the books.

It probably makes logistical sense to dismiss the case. If the judge sentenced the deceased that would probably start another legal process to transfer custody of the prisoner, etc. I am sure that some lucky assistant prosecutor, with low seniority, had to get a copy of the death certificate and write the court order for the judge to sign.

[seamusTX]

I am sure that some lucky assistant prosecutor, with low seniority, had to get a copy of the death certificate and write the court order for the judge to sign.

I have no idea. Maybe the defense attorney did it so that the case could be closed and he could get paid.

A lot of the grunt work in law offices is done by assistants who aren't lawyers. Erin Brockovich is a dramatic example of how that can work. (She's a real person, not just a character in a movie played by Julia Roberts.)

- Jim

[WildBill]

A lot of the grunt work in law offices is done by assistants who aren't lawyers. Erin Brockovich is a dramatic example of how that can work. (She's a real person, not just a character in a movie played by Julia Roberts.)

A lot of grunt work is performed by assistants in every type of business. Usually their managers get the credit for the work, and the money. Brockovich's lawyer-boss is a rare exception.

[seamusTX]

A lot of grunt work is performed by assistants in every type of business. Usually their managers get the credit ...

That's just the way life is.

- Jim