17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[speedsix]

My point is that we don't have to be involved in neighborhood watch to express our support for what we perceive as defensible actions by Zimmerman.

My point is, "Monday Morning Quarterback". When your experience is the same as Z's experience, we'd like to know how it was handled and the outcome. ITMT, continue be a good neighbor....

This entire thread is "Monday Morning Quarterback". None of us here (that I can see) have had Zimmerman's "experience", and he's certainly not here.

This entire forum would be pretty bare if the only comments were from those that are actually involved in the situations mentioned.

...we've ALL got our noses glued against the fishbowl on this one...and we may NEVER know the truth(wouldn't believe that weasel Z if he WAS here)...
...regardless that we're not all going to agree on MOST things here...it makes us think, maybe about what we would or wouldn't do and why/why not...and, hopefully, never end up in either TM's or Z,s positions...plus this is a whole lot more stimulating than Law and Order reruns...

[recaffeination]

IIRC, Gordon Hale remained in his vehicle...

Reginald Denny tried to stay in his vehicle. That's no guarantee some thug won't attack you.

[speedsix]

...neither of these examples make any sort of valid point that fits this thread...

...Denny drove unawares into a riot area while minding his own business...did absolutely nothing to incite the four thugs to pull open his unlocked truck door and attack him...

...Gordon Hale was minding his own business, too...and was attacked through a window that was rolled down by a nut...(now watch somebody flare back that a nut couldn't roll down a window...to that, I say pistachio!!!)
...there is nothing in any facts that we've been given to suggest that Z was in any kind of danger from TM before he got out and followed and chased him...had he remained in his vehicle with the windows up and door locked until the police arrived...the only damage he might have received is if TM had keyed his paint job with his iced tea can...

[ScooterSissy]

...neither of these examples make any sort of valid point that fits this thread...

...Denny drove unawares into a riot area while minding his own business...did absolutely nothing to incite the four thugs to pull open his unlocked truck door and attack him...

...Gordon Hale was minding his own business, too...and was attacked through a window that was rolled down by a nut...(now watch somebody flare back that a nut couldn't roll down a window...to that, I say pistachio!!!)
...there is nothing in any facts that we've been given to suggest that Z was in any kind of danger from TM before he got out and followed and chased him...had he remained in his vehicle with the windows up and door locked until the police arrived...the only damage he might have received is if TM had keyed his paint job with his iced tea can...

Nor is there any evidence, other than speculation, that Zimmerman "chased" anyone.

[speedsix]

...and water's not wet...and the sky's not blue...let a 6th grader hear the Z 911 tape and let him tell you what it shows...I'm done arguing that point with you...

[ScooterSissy]

...and water's not wet...and the sky's not blue...let a 6th grader hear the Z 911 tape and let him tell you what it shows...I'm done arguing that point with you...

You know, I've done my best to avoid the personal attacks in which you seem to regularly engage. We have a differing of opinion. It does not make either of us a "6th grader" or ignoring anything. You insist that he was "chasing"; but haven't shown how that's a "fact".

If he was following (which is what I believe he was doing, and which he said he was doing on the 911 call), and the person he was following sped up, he would have to speed up as well. That's not chasing, that's still following.

By the way, I looked outside yesterday, and the sky wasn't blue. It was sort of a dark grey. Meant more motorcycle gear that morning, and I guess it also means we had a different perspective.

[speedsix]

...I made NO personal attack on you...I pointed out the likelihood of a 6th grader listening to the tape and coming up with the same conclusion that I did...it's that clear...as to your "following and speeding up not being chasing"...I refer you to the dictionary...

[baldeagle]

(wouldn't believe that weasel Z if he WAS here)...

Tells us all we need to know.

[ScooterSissy]

...I made NO personal attack on you...I pointed out the likelihood of a 6th grader listening to the tape and coming up with the same conclusion that I did...it's that clear...as to your "following and speeding up not being chasing"...I refer you to the dictionary...

The implication was pretty clear. As you will note, others on here also disagree with your viewpoint that he was "chasing". Dictionary.com lists a few different definitions. Maybe if you pick one of them, we can agree on whether or not he was "chasing":

1. to pursue in order to seize, overtake, etc.: The police officer chased the thief.
2. to pursue with intent to capture or kill, as game; hunt: to chase deer.
3. to follow or devote one's attention to with the hope of attracting, winning, gaining, etc.: He chased her for three years before she consented to marry him.
4. to drive or expel by force, threat, or harassment: She chased the cat out of the room.
verb (used without object)
5. to follow in pursuit: to chase after someone.
6. to rush or hasten: We spent the weekend chasing around from one store to another.

I don't think 1 or 2 apply, because nothing indicates Zimmerman was wanting to seize, overtake, capture or kill. #3 is kinda out, I don't think he was courting Martin, or tying to attract, win, etc. #4 might, but again, nothing to clearly indicate it was his intent to "expel". 5 is kind of difficult to say one way or the other, since pursue (as noted before) is vague, and #5 uses the word to define the word. #6 doesn't apply at all. So, what do you mean by "chase".

If you mean he followed so he could report, then I'll agree that he did that. But I won't agree that means he did anything wrong.

[baldeagle]

...I made NO personal attack on you...I pointed out the likelihood of a 6th grader listening to the tape and coming up with the same conclusion that I did...it's that clear...as to your "following and speeding up not being chasing"...I refer you to the dictionary...

Except you have some 65 year olds who disagree with you, so clearly a 6 year old might not agree with your false interpretation anyway. But since you think Z is a "weasel", your position is crystal clear and not open to interpretation, regardless of any facts that might come out (many of which already have.)

[speedsix]

(wouldn't believe that weasel Z if he WAS here)...

Tells us all we need to know.

...I take it you have a different opinion of him...do you plan to share it or just to snipe at mine???

[speedsix]

...I made NO personal attack on you...I pointed out the likelihood of a 6th grader listening to the tape and coming up with the same conclusion that I did...it's that clear...as to your "following and speeding up not being chasing"...I refer you to the dictionary...

The implication was pretty clear. As you will note, others on here also disagree with your viewpoint that he was "chasing". Dictionary.com lists a few different definitions. Maybe if you pick one of them, we can agree on whether or not he was "chasing":

1. to pursue in order to seize, overtake, etc.: The police officer chased the thief.
2. to pursue with intent to capture or kill, as game; hunt: to chase deer.
3. to follow or devote one's attention to with the hope of attracting, winning, gaining, etc.: He chased her for three years before she consented to marry him.
4. to drive or expel by force, threat, or harassment: She chased the cat out of the room.
verb (used without object)
5. to follow in pursuit: to chase after someone.
6. to rush or hasten: We spent the weekend chasing around from one store to another.

I don't think 1 or 2 apply, because nothing indicates Zimmerman was wanting to seize, overtake, capture or kill. #3 is kinda out, I don't think he was courting Martin, or tying to attract, win, etc. #4 might, but again, nothing to clearly indicate it was his intent to "expel". 5 is kind of difficult to say one way or the other, since pursue (as noted before) is vague, and #5 uses the word to define the word. #6 doesn't apply at all. So, what do you mean by "chase".

If you mean he followed so he could report, then I'll agree that he did that. But I won't agree that means he did anything wrong.

...you and I are done on this subject...I don't teach vocabulary...and I've covered the definitions of chase and pursue as Webster's has them...you refuse to accept them...there's nothing left for me to say to you about it...

[ScooterSissy]

...I made NO personal attack on you...I pointed out the likelihood of a 6th grader listening to the tape and coming up with the same conclusion that I did...it's that clear...as to your "following and speeding up not being chasing"...I refer you to the dictionary...

The implication was pretty clear. As you will note, others on here also disagree with your viewpoint that he was "chasing". Dictionary.com lists a few different definitions. Maybe if you pick one of them, we can agree on whether or not he was "chasing":

1. to pursue in order to seize, overtake, etc.: The police officer chased the thief.
2. to pursue with intent to capture or kill, as game; hunt: to chase deer.
3. to follow or devote one's attention to with the hope of attracting, winning, gaining, etc.: He chased her for three years before she consented to marry him.
4. to drive or expel by force, threat, or harassment: She chased the cat out of the room.
verb (used without object)
5. to follow in pursuit: to chase after someone.
6. to rush or hasten: We spent the weekend chasing around from one store to another.

I don't think 1 or 2 apply, because nothing indicates Zimmerman was wanting to seize, overtake, capture or kill. #3 is kinda out, I don't think he was courting Martin, or tying to attract, win, etc. #4 might, but again, nothing to clearly indicate it was his intent to "expel". 5 is kind of difficult to say one way or the other, since pursue (as noted before) is vague, and #5 uses the word to define the word. #6 doesn't apply at all. So, what do you mean by "chase".

If you mean he followed so he could report, then I'll agree that he did that. But I won't agree that means he did anything wrong.

...you and I are done on this subject...I don't teach vocabulary...and I've covered the definitions of chase and pursue as Webster's has them...you refuse to accept them...there's nothing left for me to say to you about it...

Ahhh, you're "done", except you want to close it off with "I've covered the definitions..." except you haven't. Instead, you've employed innuendo to make it sound as if anyone disagreeing with you is a simpleton. You referred me to a dictionary. I complied, and asked you which definition you are using.

I think I understand why you're "done". That corner you've backed yourself into is a bit confining.

[ScooterSissy]

...you and I are done on this subject...I don't teach vocabulary...and I've covered the definitions of chase and pursue as Webster's has them...you refuse to accept them...there's nothing left for me to say to you about it...

I decided to take a look at Webster's, but did it online (it's the 21st century, online is a good thing). Their straight definitions really didn't help much one way or the other, but I found their "synonym discussion" to be enlightening:

chase, pursue, follow, trail mean to go after or on the track of something or someone. chase implies going swiftly after and trying to overtake something fleeing or running <a dog chasing a cat>. pursue suggests a continuing effort to overtake, reach, or attain <pursued the criminal through narrow streets>. follow puts less emphasis upon speed or intent to overtake <friends followed me home in their car>. trail may stress a following of tracks or traces rather than a visible object <trail deer> <trailed a suspect across the country>.

(the emphasis is mine). Again, this is as Webster has them. Never too late to learn...

[Oldgringo]

Moderators, it's time to close this silliness before someone gets jerked out of their vehicle pummeled and/or shot, eh? This has gone on long enough. Good grief!

ITMT, I'm right and everybody who disagrees with me is wrong.

IBTL,