17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[The Annoyed Man]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop ... -1.1080161

Drop the charges.

The state prosecutor has to resign too. She was not telling the truth in her charges. She was over-reaching and falsely with no legal ground charging the accused of a crime, a murder. GZ should sue the state of Florida and the prosecutor for damages.

Worse, walking and following someone is not a crime. Prosecutor has no evidence that GZ attempted to make contact with the TM or attempted to detain him in anyway. Worse, GZ has many injures where as the TM has only knuckle injuries. TM boasted that his a "N" with no limits. A moto for a gangster wanabe. All of those are easy to be shown by the defense. The prosecutor is building a case based on hearsay and ideas found in castle on top of a cloud.

I've said from the get-go immediately after State Attorney Angela Corey's first press conference that she was trying to railroad Zimmerman. She:

A) talked about having just gotten off the phone with Treyvon's "sweet parents" (her words);

B) thanked attorney Crump (hired by the Martins) for his constant efforts to make sure that her office had all the information they "needed" (doesn't she have her own investigators?);

C) announced that she was going to do everything in her power, not to assure that justice was done, but to ensure "justice for Treyvon" (her words).

Angela Corey will likely be at the center of a pretty pungent ethics investigation after this is over; and she deserves exactly the same fate as happened to Nifong. She's a poster child for the Peter Principle, compounded by having a broken moral compass.

[brainman]

I can't believe I agree with Dershowitz, but I think he's entirely correct. From a moral perspective, it matters what GZ did. But as far as murder charges go, it doesn't matter in the least what he did; the only thing that matters is what they can PROVE he did. As has been stated before, GZ didn't lose his right to self defense because he got out of his car. And the prosecutor already admitted there's no evidence he attacked Martin. Right there, the case is over.

Race really shouldn't have anything to do with this. The system is designed to require evidence to protect people of all races. Everybody in the world knows OJ did it, but hey, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit. I don't remember Sharpton or anybody else marching in the streets chanting "justice for Nicole and Ron".

[baldeagle]

Everybody in the world knows OJ did it, but hey, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit. I don't remember Sharpton or anybody else marching in the streets chanting "justice for Nicole and Ron".

Well, that's not true. I watched the entire trial, and I don't believe OJ did it. I believe Bill Dear's analysis is correct - OJ's son Jason is the killer.

But this is off topic, so please don't respond in this thread. If you want to discuss it, start a new thread, and I will respond there.

[Heartland Patriot]

I can't believe I agree with Dershowitz, but I think he's entirely correct. From a moral perspective, it matters what GZ did. But as far as murder charges go, it doesn't matter in the least what he did; the only thing that matters is what they can PROVE he did. As has been stated before, GZ didn't lose his right to self defense because he got out of his car. And the prosecutor already admitted there's no evidence he attacked Martin. Right there, the case is over.

Race really shouldn't have anything to do with this. The system is designed to require evidence to protect people of all races. Everybody in the world knows OJ did it, but hey, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit. I don't remember Sharpton or anybody else marching in the streets chanting "justice for Nicole and Ron".

Now its being said that the state's interest in this case is to prosecute and convict GZ to prevent a "race riot" ala the post-Rodney King LA Riots...that they will go out of their way to ensure GZ gets some sort of punishment to prevent said riots. Just talk, of course, but with all the overwhelming evidence being in GZ's favor, its really starting to look like there is some truth to that.

[Right2Carry]

I can't believe I agree with Dershowitz, but I think he's entirely correct. From a moral perspective, it matters what GZ did. But as far as murder charges go, it doesn't matter in the least what he did; the only thing that matters is what they can PROVE he did. As has been stated before, GZ didn't lose his right to self defense because he got out of his car. And the prosecutor already admitted there's no evidence he attacked Martin. Right there, the case is over.

Race really shouldn't have anything to do with this. The system is designed to require evidence to protect people of all races. Everybody in the world knows OJ did it, but hey, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit. I don't remember Sharpton or anybody else marching in the streets chanting "justice for Nicole and Ron".

Now its being said that the state's interest in this case is to prosecute and convict GZ to prevent a "race riot" ala the post-Rodney King LA Riots...that they will go out of their way to ensure GZ gets some sort of punishment to prevent said riots. Just talk, of course, but with all the overwhelming evidence being in GZ's favor, its really starting to look like there is some truth to that.

This is why I believe that anyone threatening or participating in riots should be charged with domestic terrorism.

[57Coastie]

...This is why I believe that anyone threatening or participating in riots should be charged with domestic terrorism.

I notice that the House passed the $642 billion defense budget yesterday, retaining the provision, over the administration's objection, permitting the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens suspected of terrorism.

Do we ship them off to Guantanamo? Just askin'.

Jim

[Right2Carry]

...This is why I believe that anyone threatening or participating in riots should be charged with domestic terrorism.

I notice that the House passed the $642 billion defense budget yesterday, retaining the provision, over the administration's objection, permitting the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens suspected of terrorism.

Do we ship them off to Guantanamo? Just askin'.

Jim

Do we currently ship people convicted of domestic terrorism to Guantanamo? Explain to me how threatening riots to achieve a desired outcome is any different than a terrorist threatening destruction to achieve a desired outcome.

Both rely on the destruction of property and life to achieve a desired result.

[Beiruty]

...This is why I believe that anyone threatening or participating in riots should be charged with domestic terrorism.

I notice that the House passed the $642 billion defense budget yesterday, retaining the provision, over the administration's objection, permitting the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens suspected of terrorism.

Do we ship them off to Guantanamo? Just askin'.

Jim

That measure is unconstitutional if challenged up to the supreme court of USA.

[The Annoyed Man]

...This is why I believe that anyone threatening or participating in riots should be charged with domestic terrorism.

I notice that the House passed the $642 billion defense budget yesterday, retaining the provision, over the administration's objection, permitting the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens suspected of terrorism.

Do we ship them off to Guantanamo? Just askin'.

Jim

Jim, we have a long and honored tradition of civil disobedience in the U.S., and I would not want to see that change necessarily. On the other hand, there is a difference between going limp when a cop tries to arrest you, and calling for rioting that everyone knows will likely result in the injuring and/or killing of large numbers of people, not to mention millions or billions of dollars in property loss/damage. I'm not sure if a domestic terrorism charge is appropriate, but I am most definitely certain that a charge of inciting to riot should be a 10 year prison term if convicted; and if anyone dies in the rioting, then a charge of accessory to murder is entirely appropriate as well, with additional minimal terms of 10 years for every person killed in the rioting. In the Rodney King riots, 53 people died during the rioting and thousands more were injured, and property damage exceeded $1 billion. Somebody deserves to spend the rest of their lives in prison for that. I don't know if the locus of the rioting can be traced down to the actions of a small number of people in a small number of areas, then those people are deserving of an enormous criminal burden for their actions.

There is only one possible exception to this standard in my mind, and that is if the rioting is the opening salvo in a general popular uprising against a tyrannical government. In such a case, it isn't "rioting" anymore so much as it is "revolution." But that is the scenario which all rational humans pray never comes to pass because the cost would be more than most want to bear.

[baldeagle]

This is the kind of reporting that infuriates me. http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-wi ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A woman identified as witness 5 walked out of her home after hearing the altercation to find Zimmerman standing over Martin's body. She said she asked him what was going on and he curtly said just, "Call the police."

The woman told police that Zimmerman, 28, examined Martin's body as he slowly paced back and forth when the police arrived. She watched as they checked the teen's body and turned him over, eventually starting CPR. But he was already dead for five or 10 minutes, she said.

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

The woman is entitled to her opinion, no matter how ill-informed, but the "reporter" has a duty to inform the reader that 1) It was less than 2 minutes after the shooting that police arrived and shortly after that CPR was started. So Trayvon could not have been dead for more than 3 minutes tops and 2) he couldn't possibly shoot him in the leg when he was being straddled "MMA style" (know as a full mount - the most vulnerable position a fighter can be in other than from behind). And where does "the kid was running for help" come from when she never saw anything until after the gun shot.

These kinds of "stories" are the ones that inflame people because of misinformation. If the media is going to be a party to it, it should be possible to successfully sue them for something - malpractice, inciting to riot, or something.

[HerbM]

Most of the people -- the vast majority -- posting here have a CHL, have an active application being processed, or are scheduling the classes and preparing to join the queue.

The more I have investigated this, reading the whole discovery document, listening to as many of the witness audio recordings as have so far been posted, etc the more convinced I am of the following:

If you ever have need to defend your life by shooting someone, you should PRAY that you have a legal case as sound and upstanding as George Zimmerman has.

You should also pray you don't run into a political and racial storm as he has done, but Zimmerman really did NOTHING wrong -- even leaving his truck is only a MINOR tactical mistake -- and you can't control what OTHER people do AFTER the fact so all you can do is the right thing for you.

Now, with better training could Zimmerman have prevailed without shooting Martin? Almost certainly. But then how many people (not you of course) never get any real training beyond shooting on a square range?

How many people have NEVER practiced force on force against a fully resisting attacker who does his best to SURPRISE you with that attack? Not you of course, right?

How many people think they will have time to draw their firearm before the attacker has you down on the ground beating you senseless against the sidewalk MMA style? Not you, of course, but people you know, right?

Have you ever practiced this way? If not, why not?

We actually teach a course in "Avoiding Criminal Assaults" and had Zimmerman practiced with us a few times, he probably (almost certainly) would have NONE of the problems (including a dead Martin) that he now has, but you know it isn't a crime, it's not even immoral, to avoid getting training or to put it off.

Stupid maybe, but ONLY if you KNOW you should get that training and don't follow through. Do you think 27-year old Zimmerman realized he needed more training in how to deal with REAL
ATTACKS on the street?

Probably not.

BTW, Zimmerman is NOT a "hero" -- he is just an ordinary CHL holder who was criminally assaulted by surprise, and found himself in fear for his life from a real danger and with no skills except crying over and over "Help" before finally shooting the assailant center of mass.

He didn't even have enough training to fire two shots automatically.

And yes, if you have never practiced drawing your firearm while being KNOCKED DOWN, or with someone sitting on your chest slapping HARD at your arms and chest to simulate hard blows, or against another person when both of you have an Airsoft pistol and you can't just stand there, then you know who you are.....

[psijac]

...This is why I believe that anyone threatening or participating in riots should be charged with domestic terrorism.

I notice that the House passed the $642 billion defense budget yesterday, retaining the provision, over the administration's objection, permitting the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens suspected of terrorism.

Do we ship them off to Guantanamo? Just askin'.

Jim

If anything the administration would ship George Zimmerman to gitmo to prevent the ease riots that would result from a not guilty verdict.

[HerbM]

...
If anything the administration would ship George Zimmerman to gitmo to prevent the ease riots that would result from a not guilty verdict.

And how much worse do you estimate it will be when the judge rules, correctly and almost certainly, in favor of Zimmerman at the Stand Your Ground Self-Defense immunity from prosecution hearing?

[baldeagle]

If anything the administration would ship George Zimmerman to gitmo to prevent the ease riots that would result from a not guilty verdict.

You could ship Zimmerman to the moon and it wouldn't stop the riots. Those will be the result of the verdict, not Zimmerman's location.

[Beiruty]

If anything the administration would ship George Zimmerman to gitmo to prevent the ease riots that would result from a not guilty verdict.

You could ship Zimmerman to the moon and it wouldn't stop the riots. Those will be the result of the verdict, not Zimmerman's location.

State of Florida charged GZ to buy sometime to get ready when riots breaks-out after dismissing the case. State of Florida with the help of Fed boys, Florida NG will control the streets. Be ready.