Dunkin Donuts Robbery

[JJVP]

What would you have done? BG's were caught after crashing their car during a police pursuit.

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[Dave2]

Not what the one guy did... Not unless my wife or kid was working there at the time.

[Medic218]

With one BG my decision is crystal clear.
2 on 1 is a different story.
I know as soon as I drop the first one the second one will realize the fight is on and start sending lead my way. The only person they attacked is the person that attacked them.
As long as he doesn't hurt anyone else I guess I'd just let him go even though every fiber of my being would want to do something to stop him and his cohort.

[The Annoyed Man]

What would you have done? BG's were caught after crashing their car during a police pursuit.

Let me get this straight.... Bad guy robs a donut shop, and the arresting officers let him live?

[FishInTx]

That BG had a glazed look in his eye. I wouldn't have jumped on him.

[speedsix]

...the audio of that would have been priceless...

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Boyn ... 59075.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[i8godzilla]

What would you have done? BG's were caught after crashing their car during a police pursuit.

Looks like one person had a plan. You can see someone duck into what I guess is the bathroom. In this instance, it looks like one may have had a chance to leave, if that possibility exists, I'm taking it.

I believe it was last year (maybe two years ago), while we were in FL, there was a rash of doughnut shop robberies. In less than two weeks there were five or six doughnut shops robbed in south FL. My suggestion is that if you are in south FL, stay out of doughnut shops.

[Keith B]

What would you have done? BG's were caught after crashing their car during a police pursuit.

Let me get this straight.... Bad guy robs a donut shop, and the arresting officers let him live?

Sure! They only took the cash; left all the donuts and coffee for during the investigation.

[RoyGBiv]

With one BG my decision is crystal clear.
2 on 1 is a different story.
I know as soon as I drop the first one the second one will realize the fight is on and start sending lead my way. The only person they attacked is the person that attacked them.
As long as he doesn't hurt anyone else I guess I'd just let him go even though every fiber of my being would want to do something to stop him and his cohort.

This.

When the first guy was wrestling with the old guy and the second guy was behind the counter with his hands full of cash drawer, there was a moment that would have been tempting to act. But as a patron I would not have had the benefit of viewing behind the counter in slow motion, so, I assume I'd have been looking for the opportunity to find cover (head for the bathrooms), get out (must be a back door somewhere, it's in the building code) or find a covered position from which to draw my weapon discretely and hope I don't have to use it. Too many employees potentially in the line of friendly fire...

Or maybe I'd just be soiling my pants. Hopefully I'd not be a frozen mess when the excrement hits the propeller. (dishonest not to consider this possibility, even though my ego says it's not gonna happen that way..... Been having an interesting discussion on this issue in another forum)

Kudos to the old guy for having the courage he did to take them on. Right or wrong, that took guts. Lucky the BG's were not depraved enough to shoot him. Perhaps because "only" armed robbery doesn't get you the death penalty.

[speedsix]

...there's not a thing in the world wrong with being afraid in a bad situation...only fools and liars aren't...many a man has done what needed done and stopped the evil...knowing full well he had a serious wardrobe problem to deal with...AFTER job 1 was done...

[RoyGBiv]

...there's not a thing in the world wrong with being afraid in a bad situation...only fools and liars aren't...many a man has done what needed done and stopped the evil...knowing full well he had a serious wardrobe problem to deal with...AFTER job 1 was done...

Sorry for the OT post...
The other discussion is about what training a non-mil, non-LE can do to reduce the potential for freezing up at a critical moment like this..... Even the most confident person doesn't really know what they'll do when the situation goes hot unless they've BTDT. And even then, the mind is a complex thing.

Just thought it was worth acknowledging in responding to this video...
When you close your eyes and put yourself in that room (an excellent and inexpensive training tool, BTW), one of the things you MUST consider is... "How do I not freeze and what if I do?"

Best for another thread.

/offtopic

[ddurkof]

I just watched it once, but the older guy (GG) at the counter appears to never noticed the second bad guy (BG2). He tried to restrain the first bad guy (BG1), a younger male that looked in much better shape.

Note the speed at which BG1 and BG2 move into the store. BG1 and BG2 are at the Act of the OODA loop (for observe, orient, decide, and act). GG1 is at the Observe, incomplete, and seems to jump to the Act part of the loop.

You can not try to restrain BGs in these situations. Especially if they are younger and stronger, they will win. You first have to determine what the heck you are going to do, and sometimes nothing is better than something that fails. GG1 is lucky that the BG1 didn't put a bullet in his head as BG1 left.

Observe - Presume there are multiple BGs in any situation, these thugs work in groups, there was most likely at lest one outside in a car too. ID as many of the BGs as possible. Lets say you walk into the donuts shop. Look around at the people, the donuts will kill you, but much slower, and no threat is observed. As you decide on your favorite apple fritter, you notice BG1 run by you and stick a gun in the face of the clerk. Re-observe, notice BG2.

Orient yourself to the situation.

Decide - Is this the time to become a wrestler? Do you, if armed, want to kill BG1, over the donuts store's cash?

Notice after BG1 KOs the GG, he puts his gun down on the counter as he is placing the money into a bag. BG2 is more proximate to BG1.

Decision time. Are you willing to shoot BG1 in the back of the head? Twice? Then 2 to the chest and one to the head on BG2?

Even if GG had control of BG1, which he never did, how is he going to control BG2?

After all of this and lets say you shoot BG1 in the head and take out BG2, what about their buddies in the car? Are they going to leave or come to BG1 & BG2 rescue?

When it is all over and the smoke is cleared the video is going to show you "executing" BG1 when he was "just turning his life around." And did you profile the men? Is NBC going to only show the part of the video that shows you firing the gun into the back of BG1's skull? Will Jesse Jackson and AL Sharpton be demonstrating on your door step and your employer's door step calling you a racist?

IF you are going to take action, make it decisive and be prepared to live with the fall out.