FMJ vs. Lead for .45 ACP

[mjoplin]

Trying to get some traffic again on this forum (and pick up some advice in the process...)

I have been handloading for my Kimber 1911 for a few months now. Have done FMJ and JHP rounds but never lead so far. The ammo is solely used for plinking at indoor and outdoor ranges. I've done a bit of research on the subject and understand that lead bullets use a lighter load and need to keep velocity down to avoid leading up the barrel. Would like request some advice from those of you who have much more experience than me (have been reloading 30-06/Garand for about a year, 45 acp for 3 months):

1. Thoughts on round nose vs semi wad cutter w.r.t. feeding in my 1911
- Thoughts on selection of RN vs. SWC for plinking
2. Any major "gotchas" when reloading lead vs. FMJ?
3. What do I need to do as far as lubing the bullets, is the lube ring on commercially available cast lead bullets sufficient?
4. I have been using FMJs sized at .451 with no issues. The lead bullets I typically see are at .452. Should I be worried about the extra thousandth, or, are the bullets sized bigger due to the softness of the lead alloy used?

I had just picked up another box of 300 Speer 230 gr FMJs for about $75 and noticed Friendswood bullets on the shelf nearby at $38 for 500, 185 gr SWC. Would definitely drop my cost per round significantly and they are just being used to perforate paper at the range...

Using a Lee single stage breech lock press, Lee carbide die set (with factory crimp), CCI large pistol primers, and have Clays, Accurate #2, Accurate #5 powder in stock.

Would greatly appreciate any insight/advice!

[MoJo]

SWC bullets make nice clean round holes in the target but some guns won't feed them reliably. round nose feed well in almost all. The lubricant in commercial bullets is adequate for most uses if you notice any leading coating them with Lee Liquid Alox will usually stop that. It is an extra step and often won't be needed. Clays may be your best choice of powder for lead bullet use of what you have in stock. In my experience, the .45 ACP is a very forgiving round as far as use of lead bullets is concerned and a lead 200 grain SWC is the most accurate of all the choices in lead bullets.

[Jumping Frog]

Andy has said about everything I would have. Just wanted to add don't use the Lee Factory Crimp die for lead rounds. Use your ordinary seating/crimping die to do both at once. The Lee FCD can potentially contribute to leading issues.

The single largest seller of lead bullets across all calibers is the 200 gr LSWC design. Millions and millions have been sold for decades. A round nose design is a good way to get started, but I'd suggest trying 50 or so of the LSWC as well to see how your gun likes them.

[Gyrogearhead]

The Lee FCD can potentially contribute to leading issues.

And how does that work, JF?

I've only heard positive things about the FCD but I have yet to use one (bought one the other day but haven't set it up in the press yet.) If there's something I need to look out for when using the FCD I'd sure like to know about it in advance instead of having to figure it out later all by myself (wishful thinking.)

Gerry

[Jumping Frog]

The Lee FCD has a carbide sizing ring to post-size the loaded round and make sure it chambers. Works just fine for jacketed rounds.

However, brass is elastic compared to lead. The FCD has to size the case slightly smaller than standard case size because the brass will "spring back" slightly and end of the standard size. However, the lead does not spring back -- when it is sized smaller, it remains smaller while the case returns to spec. Now you have slightly undersized bullets. An undersized bullet will creating leading because the combustion gases will escape around the outside of the bullet instead of getting sealed.

Don't take my word for it. Built some cartridges using the regular seating/crimping die. Built some with the FCD. Pull the bullets in both and measure the diameter.

This shows what happened shooting lead bullets that were 0.450" in one of my guns. Shooting 0.452" bullets gives no leading.




After cleaning . . . .

[jdkinman]

I cast my own bullets (or boolits, as we call them at Cast Boolits :)) and I haven't shot FMJ out of my .45s in so long that I'm not sure I remember how.

The 200SWC is my favorite bullet to load and shoot, but it can be finicky about feeding. I actually DO use a Lee FCD for it--the only FCD I use for handgun loading. However, I also lapped the carbide ring out to .452--same diameter my bore mics at, and the result is I have 200SWC rounds that feed in all the Colts, the Sig P220 and even my beloved AMT Longslide (which is finickier than a teenage prom queen). However, I still have trouble getting that same round to feed through a friend's Kimber.

The 230RN bullets are no problem with anything.

[LTUME1978]

Interesting comments on the Lee FCD. I have been using one for several years (loaded probably 20,000 rounds with the Lee dies). I had been purchasing my cast bullets from a company out of the Dallas area. They are very nice looking bullets but got some leading in the throat of the barrel (nothing anywhere near as bad as the pictures Jumping Frog posted). I did have to work at getting the lead out of the throat when cleaning. I talked with one of the engineers I work with that is a serious (and knowledgeable caster) about my problem. He took one of the bullets and tested it. He told me the alloy was to hard for 45 acp and would lead my barrel in the throat. He said the commercial casters do that so that the bullets don't get dinged up in transit. He also thought the lube was a little on the stiff side. I started purchasing my cast bullets from a local supplier (a little softer alloy and lube) and my leading problems have disappeared.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you use the Lee case mouth belling die, you will need to use their factory crimp die. The lee case mount die puts a tapered opening on the case mouth (engages the case well down below the mouth). They do this so that it will engage the case walls and shake the die when lowering the case to help get all the powder to drop into the case (when using a powder throw on that die). I also have a Hornady die set and it bells the mouth (deformation close to the mouth). If you use a standard taper die in combination with the Lee case mouth belling die, it may not remove all of the taper out of the case and you may have issues with the cartridge going into the chamber (especially if it is a tight chamber).

One other thing is to check the size of the carbide ring on the Lee factory crimp die. The first one I got seemed to be really tight (my reloading table would shake when I cycled a round through the thing). I sent it back to Lee and they returned it saying it was in tolerance (but on the tight side). I bought a second one that has about 0.001 larger opening and it is easier to get the loaded cartridge through the thing. I like the Lee stuff but sometimes you have to do a little work with them to get things right. Once it is right, it is good.

[LTUME1978]

BTW Frog, that barrel is REALLY clean. What do you use to get it that nice looking? Looks like an M&P barrel?

[Jumping Frog]

BTW Frog, that barrel is REALLY clean. What do you use to get it that nice looking? Looks like an M&P barrel?

That is a Para Ordnance 14-45 barrel.

I used copper chore boy over a bronze brush to get the lead scrubbed out with good old Hoppes. Then, for that picture (not every cleaning), I also ran some patches with Flitz through the bore.

[Don2]

BTW Frog, that barrel is REALLY clean. What do you use to get it that nice looking? Looks like an M&P barrel?

That is a Para Ordnance 14-45 barrel.

I used copper chore boy over a bronze brush to get the lead scrubbed out with good old Hoppes. Then, for that picture (not every cleaning), I also ran some patches with Flitz through the bore.

WoW...Thats strange, I use the same Para 14-45 SS....And use the same method of cleaning..!!!
Nice pistol..!!! If I may say so

Don2

[mjoplin]

Mr Frog, I will definitely try your cleaning methodology. That barrel looks great!

[mjoplin]

All, thanks for weighing in on this. Am going to try some 200 gr SWCs and see how they feed. Great feedback and MUCH appreciated!

[Jumping Frog]

Mr Frog, I will definitely try your cleaning methodology. That barrel looks great!

If you use Copper Chore-boy, make you use that brand only. Cheap imitations are steel with a copper wash coat and are hard on a barrel. Make sure you get the copper one only.

Also, I rarely use Flitz to polish the barrel. Since it is a polish, it thus has mild abrasive qualities. I am not saying it will make the bore larger, I am simply saying that I avoid overusing it.