Another Concern About the Zimmerman/Martin shooting...

[gdanaher]

Another question for the knowing. If we had a map of the neighborhood, could put an X on the convenience store, an X on the spot of the encounter, and an X on the home of the father's fiance, how close are those X's going to line up. Martin was supposed to on his way home and he was walking, so I would presume he would take the shortest public route. Is that where he was, or off down some side street?? Just wondering. I've read all of this stuff and haven't seen anything on this topic.

[clarionite]

You all assume having good evidence would have kept Jackson, Sharpton, NBC, and MSNBC from stirring up the pot. The facts wouldn't change anything. It may help Zimmerman in trial, but I am certain we would still be seeing all the anger we are seeing today regardless.

...there are interracial shootings every week all over the country...wonder why they picked this one to get fired up about??? In the early stages, nothing was being done, and there were no attempts to inform the parents, much less the public...for starters...in dozens of others...the "heroes" don't even make a peep...

In the other interracial shootings there were not PR people hired to stir the pot. That's what the difference is.

[i8godzilla]

I assume it because I don't want to believe the alternative. If a prosecutor indicts at this level, with no real intent or ability to prosecute, that's a criminal act IMO. Not that the government is beyond being criminal, but I just have a hard time believing it... denial I guess.

I watched an interview yesterday with Alan Dershowitz about the Zimmerman indictment. Dershowitz stated he believed the indictment was criminal. He even pointed to the Duke rape indictment filed by Nifong.

“This affidavit submitted by the prosecutor in the Florida case is a crime,” Dershowitz said. “It’s a crime.”
--snip--
“If she in fact knew about ABC News’ pictures of the bloody head of Zimmerman and failed to include that in the affidavit, this affidavit is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,” Dershowitz said. “It’s a perjurious affidavit.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/25/de ... z1tGdOdac2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WildBill]

I assume it because I don't want to believe the alternative. If a prosecutor indicts at this level, with no real intent or ability to prosecute, that's a criminal act IMO. Not that the government is beyond being criminal, but I just have a hard time believing it... denial I guess.

I watched an interview yesterday with Alan Dershowitz about the Zimmerman indictment. Dershowitz stated he believed the indictment was criminal. He even pointed to the Duke rape indictment filed by Nifong.

“This affidavit submitted by the prosecutor in the Florida case is a crime,” Dershowitz said. “It’s a crime.”
--snip--
“If she in fact knew about ABC News’ pictures of the bloody head of Zimmerman and failed to include that in the affidavit, this affidavit is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,” Dershowitz said. “It’s a perjurious affidavit.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/25/de ... z1tGdOdac2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I usually don't agree with Dershowitz's politics, but he's a darn good lawyer. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I am sure that he would take Zimmerman's appeal if he is convicted.

[smoothoperator]

You all assume having good evidence would have kept Jackson, Sharpton, NBC, and MSNBC from stirring up the pot. The facts wouldn't change anything. It may help Zimmerman in trial, but I am certain we would still be seeing all the anger we are seeing today regardless.

...there are interracial shootings every week all over the country...wonder why they picked this one to get fired up about???

Maybe they thought he was a Nice Jewish Boy. Both Jackson and Sharpton have a history of antisemitic comments.

Maybe it's as simple as Crump getting involved and stirring the pot because he thought there was money or fame in it.

Who knows?

[PATHFINDER]

The special prosecutor was under-the-gun to charge Zimmerman in order to quiet the lynch-mob. She achieved that goal - for now.

Zimmerman's web-site was taken down on the advice of his attorney. Hopefully another venue for donations will be established. I've contributed, and intend to continue doing so.

I once was confronted with a menacing threat while involved with NW at a condo in Colorado Springs. The perp repeatedly threatened to "mess me up" if I were to hurt his Pit Bull that he regularly allowed to run loose terrorizing residents in the complex. When he observed the holstered Glock on my belt he suddenly became "civil" , and apparently decided to cease threatening to "mess me up".

If Florida had allowed open carry, it's possible that Martin would still be alive, and this whole matter would have been resolved by civility - rather than assault, battery, and homicide on the night of Feb. 26th.

[74novaman]

Some of my thoughts on Joe Civilian and riots (seeing as how I've never been in one just done some reading, you can take or leave the advice as you see fit).

Seems that most civil unrest/violence in the US occurs in commercial or very low income/rent residential neighborhoods. That being said, how to react in order to keep yourself safe from an angry mob is going to be wildly different depending on which area you are in, commercial or residential (or more simply....are you at work or home when things happen).

Some things you should do regardless of location:

1) Be Aware

Look outside occasionally, check the local tv/radio news for reports of "crowds forming" or "unrest". Be aware of any national news that could incite violence (for this thread, lets make it easy...Zimmerman goes to trial. Once the jury is deliberating, I'd keep a very close ear to the ground waiting for an announcement of guilty/not guilty). If you don't realize a riot is going on until the mob is breaking into your business or setting your car on fire in the driveway, you're already way behind the curve.

2) Have a Plan

You should always have a plan. If a riot is in or heading to your area, what are you going to do? When would you try to get the heck out? What situation would necessitate you holding your position? What would you need to do either one? What supplies would be good to have in the event of a riot?

A lot of those questions don't have universal answers, but will depend on your specific situation. A few things that I think are universal:

Have gas in the car. If you can only drive 30 miles before you run out of gas, it makes it a lot harder to flee from a bad situation.

Have at least a weeks worth of food/water. If you can't get to the store because they're closed or the mobs in the way, can you feed yourself something?

Have fire extinguishers. Even if its not the mob setting your property on fire, your local PD/FD will be busy with the mob...so if something happens at your home/business being able to take care of it yourself is important. Their response times to non riot related calls will likely be VERY long, if they're able to respond at all.

3) Be armed.

More than that, be armed enough to face multiple assailants. I know people love their 5 shot J frame, or their pocket .380. Would you care to face a crowd with them? Try to carry the largest capacity gun in a service caliber (9/40/45) that you can. And carry reloads. Make sure you have a rifle or shotgun and reloads handy. Fairly self explanatory why.

Now, regarding commercial/residential.

In a commercial/business setting:

If at all possible, get the heck out! Insurance will cover any damage done to the business. Whether you own the place or work for someone else, your life isn't worth defending those computers, or twinkies, or whatever random item the rioters decide to steal. Your life is more important. Make sure your coworkers are able to get out, and leave! If you are not able to leave, retreat to a warehouse/backroom that has at least 2 exits, lock the doors and dim the lights. Hopefully anyone who breaks in will only be interested in grabbing what looks good out front and leaving, not exploring thoroughly.

Leaving a commercial location

Okay, so you've decided to flee. Smart call. Since you're being smart, you probably can grab that long gun from the trunk and throw a towel over it to keep it up front with you, right? Good. That being said, you're driving a 3000 lbs weapon. Simply put...if you can avoid the riot at all, do so. If you somehow manage to take a wrong turn/come across it unexpectedly....Doors locked. Do NOT stop moving. Mobs are dangerous. If they get you out of the car, you could be beaten, crippled or killed. Do not let them get you out. DRIVE.

In a residential setting:

Most people have a problem with this, because we're talking about our homes as opposed to where we work. But again, the safest thing to do (if you can do so without going through the mob) is to get out of dodge. Yes, you may lose some "stuff"....but thats why we have everything documented for insurance, right? My neighborhood does only have 1 entrance/exit, so I've had to consider the possibility that fleeing isn't an option. So in that case..

Defending the home

Generally, as CHL holders we are trained to stay inside the house (and its tactically sound advice). While this is normally a good idea, mobs seem to like fire. So if one thug breaks down the door and is met with gunfire, they won't try to storm the house....but they might go ahead and set fire to it before they move on. In the LA riots, Korean shopkeepers on their roofs kept the mob moving on to other targets. In a crowd situation, the roof is a decent idea. Its not great cover, but pretty good concealment. It gives you a great view of the neighborhood, and you'll be able to see anyone trying to start fires, etc. Again in this situation a rifle or shotgun wins over a pistol.


For the TL,DR crowd.......My riot advice: Be aware of your surroundings, have a plan to get out or defend, be armed, and if you can at all...get the heck out of the area.

Feel free to chime in if you feel I missed anything important or am just flat out wrong.

[RHenriksen]

I agree w not risking your life over your business, if your insurance is good; BUT ... a couple of things to think about:

Business interruption - if your business shuts down for 3 months because the building, your inventory, etc are gone: what happens to your client base? Your cash flow? It's possible to get insurance for loss of business continuity.

Data: many, many business either have no data backup, unreliable data backup, or no *offsite* storage of those backups. You should hire a separate IT shop to cone in and audit your IT infrastructure to see what'd be required to recover from a disaster.

[74novaman]

I agree w not risking your life over your business, if your insurance is good; BUT ... a couple of things to think about:

Business interruption - if your business shuts down for 3 months because the building, your inventory, etc are gone: what happens to your client base? Your cash flow? It's possible to get insurance for loss of business continuity.

Data: many, many business either have no data backup, unreliable data backup, or no *offsite* storage of those backups. You should hire a separate IT shop to cone in and audit your IT infrastructure to see what'd be required to recover from a disaster.

Very good points. In addition, I apologize if what I wrote seems like common sense, simplistic or a "duh" statement to members here.

I know most of you are prepared and think about this sort of thing...but we do have new members daily, and lurkers who never join...just wanted to get my thoughts down for those who may not have considered what is needed to be prepared for an event like a riot.

[RHenriksen]

No apology needed! I liked your write up; it just inspired me to take the analysis a little deeper. Since I do IT work for a living, and data backup/disaster recovery/business continuity is such an important part of my scope of work, it jumped out at me for inclusion here.

Very good points. In addition, I apologize if what I wrote seems like common sense, simplistic or a "duh" statement to members here.

I know most of you are prepared and think about this sort of thing...but we do have new members daily, and lurkers who never join...just wanted to get my thoughts down for those who may not have considered what is needed to be prepared for an event like a riot.

[gringo pistolero]

If at all possible, get the heck out! Insurance will cover any damage done to the business. Whether you own the place or work for someone else, your life isn't worth defending those computers, or twinkies, or whatever random item the rioters decide to steal.

Mine is worth more than that stuff. However, if criminals decide their lives are worth less, then I can't fault a store owner for cashing that check.

The same principle applies to neighbors banding together to protect their families and homes from criminals. "You loot - we shoot" is good public policy.

[rp_photo]

I believe that Zimmerman will either get off completely, or get off with a lighter conviction than murder or even manslaughter. I could be wrong, but that is my guess at this point

No outcome will be good enough for the blind Travon-backers.

[rp_photo]

What do you all think? Are there others who live in a metropolitan area who have similar concerns?

I'm grateful to live in state where people are less likely to put with that, and are allowed to take steps to defend against it.