Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by PD

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philip964
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#31

Post by philip964 »

matriculated wrote:
george wrote:
matriculated wrote:
george wrote:The larger point here is what in the world were these neighbors thinking? I mean, holy moly, talk about playing cop, playing Batman, or whatever you want to call it. How is what they did legal? Is it? Why weren't they arrested for running around and holding people at gun point?

Not a lawyer, but if the prior residents/homeowners had asked the neighbors to "look out for the place", they have some authority. Isn't that the law from the Rose case in Pasadena?
My understanding is that this was a foreclosure. If that's the case, would any request by the previous owners still have standing? After all, it's not even their place anymore.

EDIT: Actually, even if it wasn't a foreclosure and they just sold it, the question still stands. It's not their place anymore, so how would any requests regarding the property that they made have any standing? They have nothing to do with the house anymore. I assume it's the bank's house. I highly doubt that the bank made any preotection requests with the neighbors.
Ignorant of the legal particulars, but possibly the neighbors were unaware it was foreclosed.

Not in any form or fashion defending what happened, as at first take I was incensed. After further consideration, strange people next door, breaking into house, etc. I just don't have the first hand scoop.
Imagine if the neighbors felt threatened and got a round or two off. We might have another case of a friendly, overzealous neighbor shooting a "suspicious" black guy... :shock: D'oh! I need to quit. :mrgreen:
So you just bought a house, your at it for the first time, your legally carrying and two strange folk walk up on your property pointing a guns at you.

You:

1. Put your hands in the air and say don't shoot.

or,

2. Retreat for cover and draw your weapon.

or,

3. Retreat for cover draw your weapon and call 911

or,

4. Draw and fire until you perceive no threat. Call 911 and ask for an ambulance.

or,

5. Tell your family to go inside, stand your ground and tell the strangers they are trespassing and to leave.


I think these neighbors are very lucky if they are not later arrested.

This looks country, how would this change if they were long guns? (You could see long guns further off, but you might not be looking)
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#32

Post by Excaliber »

WildBill wrote:
Ameer wrote:
matriculated wrote:buying a house while black
The wife looks lighter skinned than me but everything is about race to some people. If we can put aside skin color for one minute, can someone explain to me how the police are supposed to know it was their house if they didn't have any paperwork and their ID still showed their old address? Also, if you were away and someone was in your house and the neighbors called police, should the police automatically believe them if they say they live there?
The police have to act on the evidence and observations when they arrive. As you stated, the Kalonjis did not have closing papers with them or IDs with the current address so the police wouldn't automatically believe them. They could have checked with the realtor or escrow company. I would think that it could have been resolved without the Kalonjis having to spend the night in jail.
People moving into a new home never have ID with the new address, because they can't get it until they can prove they live there.

Possession of the key to the door locks should have provided a clue that the new owners' story was correct, and it would have been easily checked as you note above.

I see a pretty solid false arrest suit in the officers' future.
Excaliber

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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#33

Post by philip964 »

http://www.ajc.com/news/newton-county-m ... 24231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The neighbor's had AK47's (always the BG's gun) but knowing the press could be any scary gun.

They now have a high profile attorney.

House is on 11 acres. Had been empty for seven months.

Neighbor's may be charged. Defended what they did and said something about the second amendment gave them the right.
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#34

Post by Beiruty »

I had the same, exactly the same story. Next door neighbor moved out to Austin after his wife passed away due to advanced cancer. For like a year, the house was empty. One day, I came home, and my wife went like there is a strange truck parked in my neighbor's driveway and 2 shady-looking guys entered from the backyard and they are messing with the rear door with a drill.

My "red-lamps" started flashing! Armed, I got! I approached slowly, sidearm still holstered. And shouted:" Who are you and what are you doing here?" The guys looked the almost :cryin in fear. I hear:" we are the bank-sent contractors to change the keys of this foreclosed house". Never it came to my mind that my neighbor house is foreclosed by a bank. I immediately demanded to see bank papers or order of work issued by the bank. Luckily, those folks, they had 2 red-colored papers that list the ex-owner info and the order to change the locks. It looks said doc was issued by a bank entity.

I verified the info to be correct and the 2-guys finished their work.

No weapons was ever produced, nonetheless, I was in the red-zone.

One thing, I may had to do is call 911. However, I have had asked my wife to call 911 if things went bad in a down hill.
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#35

Post by speedsix »

...glad it went well, but what authority did you have to go onto that property and challenge them, demanding that they explain themselves and prove anything to you??? none...it would have been wiser to call the PD and just take down the truck descr., license plate, and their description...from your own property...if they had refused to tell you anything and continued...you would have had to fall back on "call the PD and wait"...why not start with that...and not put yourself in any risk/legal problem...if their response had been different, it could have gotten bad...quick...for a house that you knew to be empty???


...the OP's story illustrates that we MUST learn the laws for ourselves and make our decisions according to law...not casual advice from a LEO whose butt won't be in the frying pan with ours should we act on it...these deputies who slapped 'em on the back after the "hero" episode.........won't likely be standing beside them in court to tell the judge "It's OK, Judge"...sounds like they may be busy down in civil court...we have to know WHAT to do...and be able to explain WHY we did it...according to LAW...or WE will be the ones in trouble...
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#36

Post by Keith B »

Beiruty wrote:I had the same, exactly the same story. Next door neighbor moved out to Austin after his wife passed away due to advanced cancer. For like a year, the house was empty. One day, I came home, and my wife went like there is a strange truck parked in my neighbor's driveway and 2 shady-looking guys entered from the backyard and they are messing with the rear door with a drill.

My "red-lamps" started flashing! Armed, I got! I approached slowly, sidearm still holstered. And shouted:" Who are you and what are you doing here?" The guys looked the almost :cryin in fear. I hear:" we are the bank-sent contractors to change the keys of this foreclosed house". Never it came to my mind that my neighbor house is foreclosed by a bank. I immediately demanded to see bank papers or order of work issued by the bank. Luckily, those folks, they had 2 red-colored papers that list the ex-owner info and the order to change the locks. It looks said doc was issued by a bank entity.

I verified the info to be correct and the 2-guys finished their work.

No weapons was ever produced, nonetheless, I was in the red-zone.

One thing, I may had to do is call 911. However, I have had asked my wife to call 911 if things went bad in a down hill.
This is where too many people go wrong and make two major mistakes:

1st mistake, approaching them yourselves if your 'red-lamps' are flashing. You should stay in your house where you are protected. If the hosue was empty, then there was no risk of someone's life being in danger.

2nd mistake, not calling 911 and let them handle it and you be a good remote witness if they need your statement.
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#37

Post by philip964 »

http://www.ajc.com/news/newton-county-n ... 24231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Update.

Batman and Robin arrested. "aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal trespass"

Per the AJC, "They grabbed their AR-15s and snuck up behind a man and woman fiddling with the front door lock."
One of them was quoted as saying, "This is my Second Amendment right. Look, this is the country out here, and we protect our own." "I don't know what they can charge me with."

It also made Houston's radio news.
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#38

Post by puma guy »

philip964 wrote:http://www.ajc.com/news/newton-county-n ... 24231.html

Update.

Batman and Robin arrested. "aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal trespass"

Per the AJC, "They grabbed their AR-15s and snuck up behind a man and woman fiddling with the front door lock."
One of them was quoted as saying, "This is my Second Amendment right. Look, this is the country out here, and we protect our own." "I don't know what they can charge me with."

It also made Houston's radio news.
Sorry but IMHO. This is a case of Dumb, Dumber and Super Dumber by SO. Followed by sheer stupidity in arresting the folks. I never had my closing papers in my possesion when I entered a house I'd bought. My wife who was my fiance at the time bought a house for investment together and the court house still has it listed only in her maiden name even though my name is on all the paperwork. We have had no absolutely luck in getting it changed in 34 years. Good thing it's not in these guys neighborhood, everytime I go to paint or repair it I'd be arrested.
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#39

Post by Beiruty »

speedsix wrote:...glad it went well, but what authority did you have to go onto that property and challenge them, demanding that they explain themselves and prove anything to you??? none...it would have been wiser to call the PD and just take down the truck descr., license plate, and their description...from your own property...if they had refused to tell you anything and continued...you would have had to fall back on "call the PD and wait"...why not start with that...and not put yourself in any risk/legal problem...if their response had been different, it could have gotten bad...quick...for a house that you knew to be empty???


...the OP's story illustrates that we MUST learn the laws for ourselves and make our decisions according to law...not casual advice from a LEO whose butt won't be in the frying pan with ours should we act on it...these deputies who slapped 'em on the back after the "hero" episode.........won't likely be standing beside them in court to tell the judge "It's OK, Judge"...sounds like they may be busy down in civil court...we have to know WHAT to do...and be able to explain WHY we did it...according to LAW...or WE will be the ones in trouble...

I was asked many times by the owner to keep an eye on his property. He never disclosed that he would skip payments and let house slide back to the bank. His wife life insurance was a factor to dump his house.

I do agree, calling 911 was the wiser choice. Live and learn, I guess.
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#40

Post by speedsix »

...looks like THIS lesson was "on the house"...no harm, no foul!!!

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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#41

Post by speedsix »

philip964 wrote:http://www.ajc.com/news/newton-county-n ... 24231.html

Update.

Batman and Robin arrested. "aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal trespass"

Per the AJC, "They grabbed their AR-15s and snuck up behind a man and woman fiddling with the front door lock."
One of them was quoted as saying, "This is my Second Amendment right. Look, this is the country out here, and we protect our own." "I don't know what they can charge me with."

It also made Houston's radio news.

...they oughta put those two in the same cell and let 'em fight about who gets credit for that idea...put the video on youtube...and they could at least pay for their defense...
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#42

Post by MasterOfNone »

matriculated wrote:Imagine if the neighbors felt threatened and got a round or two off. We might have another case of a friendly, overzealous neighbor shooting a "suspicious" black guy... :shock: D'oh! I need to quit. :mrgreen:
matriculated, twice in this thread you have made the color of the victims an issue. Did you find something in the news reports that indicates the neighbors' action was racially motivated?
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#43

Post by philip964 »

philip964 wrote:After they bought a house.

http://www.ajc.com/news/couple-held-at- ... 23138.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So is profiling a lot worse in the US than we think.
I brought it up on the first post that I thought the Black couple was profiled. So I introduced race from day one. And I didn't even know till today that Batman and Robin were really Caucasian. I also didn't realize until later that the couple was biracial.

Guess the father and son also didn't know that the Black guy's brother taught soccer to one of the high profile attorneys in Atlanta.
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#44

Post by MasterOfNone »

philip964 wrote:
philip964 wrote:After they bought a house.

http://www.ajc.com/news/couple-held-at- ... 23138.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So is profiling a lot worse in the US than we think.
I brought it up on the first post that I thought the Black couple was profiled. So I introduced race from day one. And I didn't even know till today that Batman and Robin were really Caucasian. I also didn't realize until later that the couple was biracial.

Guess the father and son also didn't know that the Black guy's brother taught soccer to one of the high profile attorneys in Atlanta.
But what made you feel they were profiled?
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Re: Black couple held at gun point by neighbors arrested by

#45

Post by Hoosier Daddy »

Beiruty wrote:No weapons was ever produced, nonetheless, I was in the red-zone.
That's OK as long as you weren't stopping.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (minor foul language at the end)
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