17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[VMI77]

I think KoC that the only reason those things are in this conversation is because at first they were scrubbed up and the picture put out of him was several years old. Even I when I first saw it thought a 12 year old had been shot. If those pushing the "innocent black child (6 foot 3 inch is not a child in my book) got shot by big bad whitey" had not attempted to scrub those pictures then I don't think his appearance would be part of this discussion at all.

The opponents of self-defense, the 2nd Amendment, and firearms ownership have long stretched the ages of individuals who are shot and killed, calling them "children". One "study" went so far as to label VERIFIED mid-20s gangbangers as "children" (by first calling them "youths" and then implying that youths are simply older children) so they could inflate the numbers of children who were shot and killed in the years covered in said study. People like to believe "experts", but many of the so-called experts these days are FAR from it...and have no more credibility on particular subjects than picking a random guy at a construction site or lady at an office in downtown Dallas and asking them what they think about it. What they DO have is being able to get their position HEARD by the "mainstream media"...and you can look at my posting above to see what I think about them.

The cutoff in age for the anti-self-defense crowd is 25....their statistics that cite "children" include everyone up to age 25.

[mamabearCali]

Really? I had a child by twenty five! Give me a break.

[philip964]

There has been a lot of talk about stereotyping with this case. Making a preconceived judgement about someone, before really knowing them.

Some of the discussion on the radio has been about African Americans wearing "hoodies". Just because you are African American and wear a "hoodie" does not make you a criminal. That is of course correct.

However, am I wrong to see this photo and not draw a conclusion. Am I racist, after seeing this photo, I am changed by it?

From today's news.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/2-men ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Oh, his pants fell down as he jumped over the counter, just to add a little more to the stereotype)

[philip964]

Hmm. George Zimmerman seems uninjured in this video.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin ... 3POGfV0Ryc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Keith B]

Hmm. George Zimmerman seems uninjured in this video.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin ... 3POGfV0Ryc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Video quality may not be good enough to show a cleaned up cut on the head. Police reports do say he was bleeding, why would they falsify that? We already know he had refused to go to the hospital, so it was not serious enough for him to go.

[baldeagle]

Hmm. George Zimmerman seems uninjured in this video.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin ... 3POGfV0Ryc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is completely bogus. First of all, it's not a closeup. Secondly, the picture quality is far less than ideal. Thirdly, we already know from the police report that he had a bloody nose and contusions on the back of his head, that he sat, handcuffed, in a police car and was attended by police personnel on scene. By the time the arrived at headquarters, at 3AM, of course he would no longer be bleeding. The release of the video is just another attempt to smear the Sanford Police Department. Some people are even claiming that they allowed him to change clothes. Sheesh.

[terryg]

I just thought I would check, and yes - sure enough - the fine folks over at the VPC have added Zimmerman to their count of "concealed carry killers".

Florida
# Concealed Handgun Permit Holder: George Zimmerman
Pending
Date: February 26, 2012
People Killed: 1

Circumstances: On February 26, 2012, concealed handgun permit holder George
Zimmerman, 28, shot and killed Trayvon Martin, 17, with a 9mm handgun as Martin was
returning from a nearby 7-11 convenience store where he had purchased an ice tea and a
package of Skittles. Martin was visiting the home of his father's girlfriend, located in the
gated community of The Retreat at Twin Lakes. At 7:17 PM, Zimmerman, the
neighborhood watch captain, called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person.
Zimmerman, driving around the neighborhood in his car, called to report what he called
“a real suspicious guy.” Said Zimmerman, “This guy looks like he's up to no good, or
he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.”
Zimmerman added, “These assholes, they always get away.” Despite being told by the
911 operator not to follow him, Zimmerman followed Martin. Just two minutes after
Zimmerman had called the police, six neighbors dialed 911 to report a fight between the
two and then a gunshot. In shooting the unarmed teen, Zimmerman claimed self-defense.
Local police did not arrest Zimmerman in connection with the shooting because of
Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which allows private citizens to use lethal force if they
believe their safety or life is in danger. Public outcry following the shooting gained
national attention and focused on issues of race (Martin was black), the NRA-drafted
‘Shoot First’ law, and the state's lax concealed weapons laws. On March 19, the U.S.
Justice Department announced that it would investigate the case. The next day, the state
attorney for Seminole County announced that a grand jury would be convened to look
into the case.

Then, in another article, they say:

Despite the national outrage over the shooting of Trayvon Martin, Congress may soon act on legislation that would actually expand the ability of people like George Zimmerman to carry their guns to virtually every state. Two bills have been introduced in the U.S. Senate (S. 2188 and S. 2213) that would significantly expand the ability of George Zimmerman--whose concealed carry permit is still valid--and all other concealed carry permit holders to carry their loaded handguns nationwide.

[flintknapper]

I saw/ran across that incident yesterday or so.
All details aren't known, but it appears "Skittles guy" shouldn't have put Armed guy/CHL neighborhood watch captain on ground and beat on him to make his nose and back of his head bleed. And Neighborhood watch guy learned that yelling help real loudly over and over.... doesn't bring any help sometimes.

At this point, it's a "he said" deal, but with some physical evidence to corroborate neighborhood watch guy's story.

Put yourself in the "skittle guy's" shoes. You are a 17 year old black male walking home eating skittles and minding your own business and some suspicious looking old white guy starts to follow you. You tell him to leave you alone and continue to walk home. He continues to follow you. You tell him to get lost and mind his own business. He continues to stalk you. You turn around and you see the old man pointing a gun at you. You fear for your life and punch him the nose. The old guy he falls to the ground. You try to disarm him by hitting him in the face and head. Then he shoots you.

Update: WFTV found out Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for battery on a law enforcement officer.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man ... as-/nLPgL/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Case was dismissed......right?

[philip964]

Hmmmm, Police video that ABC released may show gash to back of Zimmerman's head.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/polic ... ad-injury/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Keith B]

Hmmmm, Police video that ABC released may show gash to back of Zimmerman's head.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/polic ... ad-injury/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting. Would really like to see cruiser video from the scene, but of course that will probably not be released until the investigation is over.

Anyone that has had a head wound, even a slight one, knows how much they bleed. They can really look severe and not be that bad actually. The bleeding is usually stopped pretty easily if only superficial. Same with a punch to the nose; they bleed and can get stopped by clogging the nostrils. We don't know that Zimmerman didn't have cotton or gauze in his nose in the video; can't tell. As already stated he was attended to by EMS, so they would have cleaned the area and if the cut on the head wasn't that severe then they may not have dressed the wound with anything and made sure all bleeding was stopped.

[koconcept]

Ill say this case should be a real eye opener for everyone even contemlatinng taking their own personal security in their own hands. Zimmerman will never live a normal life, there is absolutely no way he can ever have a fair trial. People seem to forget that defendants have rights too. He most likely no matter what happens will have a hard time finding work and have to remain in hiding due to the lynch mob mentality that was fueled by the media and people in government.

[A-R]

Ill say this case should be a real eye opener for everyone even contemlatinng taking their own personal security in their own hands. Zimmerman will never live a normal life, there is absolutely no way he can ever have a fair trial. People seem to forget that defendants have rights too. He most likely no matter what happens will have a hard time finding work and have to remain in hiding due to the lynch mob mentality that was fueled by the media and people in government.

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6, sure.

But better condemned by millions? Still better, but does change the calculation a bit.

Good point.

[Keith B]

koconcept, you are spot on. Anyone who thinks they will be able to shoot and potentially kill a threat and it being a walk in the park for the investigation, psychological and physical impact is living in a dream world.

First, even if it is pretty clear that the shooting was a justified self defense, it will cost you as you will need to have a lawyer ready to go to make sure you do the right thing through the Grand Jury investigation. At worst, you may end up with a questionable event and be like Zimmerman and be drug through the mud, dirt and blood even if you are justified.

Secondly, At best, you will be mentioned in the media in a blip. At worst, it makes national news like Zimmerman. You will now be known to the public as someone who shot and killed a person. There will even be people who you thought were good friends that now may question your being justified and now look at you in a different light. You may be hounded by the press, and even have to go into hiding for awhile.

Third, you will also have to deal with a new aspect that you taken someone's life. No matter how cold you think you can be when someone who 'deserved' to be shot and killed 'gets theirs', it WILL affect you way more than you think. Personally, I was involved in two shootings as a LEO. And while I was not the shooter, and these two individuals truly needed killing, it did weigh on me. And, it REALLY weighed on the officers that took those guys lives psychological and physical minds and bodies, even though the shootings were 110% justifiable. I couldn't sleep well for a couple of nights after the shootings. These officers had to have medication to sleep.

So, even though these are just a few of the aspects, when you shoot someone justified or not, your life will NEVER be the same and you will NEVER be the same person again. How you are able to handle it will depend on your personal support system and how you are viewed and supported by family, friends and even the general public and media.

[philip964]

Ohh the extent of search on the web. Just cause you died does not mean you disappear. A tattoo is the dead give away that this is Trayvon. How long will it be before Trayvon's buddies begin to speak on camera for money and fame. So is this guy Obama's son?

Caution photo might offend your sensibilities.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/secon ... dentified/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[VMI77]

Hmm. George Zimmerman seems uninjured in this video.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin ... 3POGfV0Ryc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've got video around my house. I wouldn't be able to tell, especially in that lighting, if someone was bleeding or injured, unless it was a very serious injury.