17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[C-dub]

White Batman wannabe with a 'throw down'.

Anybody wanna' bet?

I don't recall anywhere mentioning the 17y old having a weapon of any kind. Did I miss that?

[puma guy]

BTW, Saying Hello, Can I help you? Or, do you live in the neighborhood is no crime that I am aware of. Initiating a friendly contact is no crime.

Help me out here. I couldn't open all the links but in those I opened I didn't read that a conversation like the one described took place.

[Oldgringo]

BTW, Saying Hello, Can I help you? Or, do you live in the neighborhood is no crime that I am aware of. Initiating a friendly contact is no crime.

Help me out here. I couldn't open all the links but in those I opened I didn't read that a conversation like the one described took place.

In the OP:

snip...

"Zimmerman told police officers that he had shot Martin and officers found a semiautomatic handgun on him."

snip...

[puma guy]

BTW, Saying Hello, Can I help you? Or, do you live in the neighborhood is no crime that I am aware of. Initiating a friendly contact is no crime.

Help me out here. I couldn't open all the links but in those I opened I didn't read that a conversation like the one described took place.

In the OP:

snip...

"Zimmerman told police officers that he had shot Martin and officers found a semiautomatic handgun on him."

snip...

I never could get the OP link to open. It froze my computer every time I tried it. Did Zimmerman also say he had the congenial conversation describe by Beiruty? That does put a different spin on things, but still he should have let the police handle it. I wonder if they'll be able to get any info on the semi-auto found on Martin.

[srothstein]

Mr. Zimmerman exited his vehicle against the orders police gave him and confronted Trayvon Martin and a fight ensued according to neighbors. I will cede the point on who started the fight, but this was instigated by the shooter.

Realizing that this case did not happen in Texas, every time I hear that the police told him not to confront the kid, I am reminded of a Houston case where the same claim was made. The recording of the dispatcher shows him telling the shooter not to leave his house to stop those burglars. I thought we all agreed then that the dispatcher is not necessarily (or usually) a police officer and has no legal authority to tell the person on the other end of the line what to do or not do.

I agree that we do not have enough information to make any determination. The shooter may have approached the kid or the kid may have approached the shooter first. The shooter may have started a fist fight or the kid may have swung first. All we know is how the fight ended and one side of the story on how it started. I have doubts we will ever learn enough to be sure how th whole thing went down.

[apostate]

snip...

"Zimmerman told police officers that he had shot Martin and officers found a semiautomatic handgun on him."

snip...

I read "him" as Zimmerman but you may be right.

[Jusster]

snip...

"Zimmerman told police officers that he had shot Martin and officers found a semiautomatic handgun on him."

snip...

I read "him" as Zimmerman but you may be right.

The case has been turned over to the Seminole State Attorney’s Office, and now prosecutors need to act swiftly and deliver answers, and make decisions that take into account the undeniable fact that an unarmed young man was killed.
Just because a person is allowed to carry a concealed weapon doesn’t mean that person can get out of the car, scare someone who isn’t a threat, get involved in a fight, and then, when they’re presumably on the losing end with a bloody nose, use the gun to kill.
None of the facts we do know point to an obvious case of self-defense.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/13/2 ... rylink=cpy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;#storylink=cpy

Yeah "him' is Zimmerman.


Jusster

[Armybrat]

The 911 tapes have been released, and it doesn't sound like Zimmerman is so innocent:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/sanford-9 ... ath/nLWWS/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus I just saw a TV interview with two eyewitnesses - ladies who lived in the condo by the scene - who say it wasn't self-defense to them.

[matriculated]

The 911 tapes have been released, and it doesn't sound like Zimmerman is so innocent:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/sanford-9 ... ath/nLWWS/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus I just saw a TV interview with two eyewitnesses - ladies who lived in the condo by the scene - who say it wasn't self-defense to them.

The picture is much clearer now. Zimmerman got out of his car, Trayvon saw a strange man following him and took off, Zimmerman gave chase, confronted the teen, and ended up putting a bullet in his chest. I don't care anything about what kind of confrontation ensues when Zimmerman comes up to the teen, it's Zimmerman's fault and is not self-defense. A simple fact of life is that if you're in pursuit, then you're not defending yourself. If you're pursuing some teenager on the street just because you found him "suspicious," then you're not in fear for your life. You have no justification for putting a bullet in that teen's chest. What you're doing is escalating the situation unnecessarily. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car and Trayvon came up to his car and attacked him, self-defense. Zimmerman gets out of his car and chases Trayvon down and kills him, not self-defense. Zimmerman can be heard on the tape saying: "These ******* always get away." Hmm... Zimmerman also says of Trayvon, as he is already out of his car and walking toward Trayvon: "He's running" and "He ran." So Trayvon sees a strange man following him and runs. Strange man catches up and "defends" himself by shooting the kid. In what world is this still unclear or murky to anybody? And why isn't Zimmerman in jail?

I love the PD's statement how they found no evidence to doubt Zimmerman's story. So the default now is that what Zimmerman says is true until proven otherwise. Even given the extremely dubious nature of Zimmerman's actions (following teen, getting out of car even against Sanford PD's advice, chasing teen down after teen flees from strange man, "defending" himself by offing the teen).

[WildBill]

Without all of the facts maybe I should not speculate what actually happened, but I predict that Mr. Zimmerman will be indicted.

[ddurkof]

If I chased down every person I found "suspicious" here in Houston, I would be a world class sprinter. I think that the shooter, Zimmerman, SHOULD be indited. An indictment is just that there is enough information to take to trial and let a jury decide.

Is he guilty of murder, manslaughter or some other violation of the penal code?

That I do not know.

I do suspect that Zimmerman will be paying for this financially for the rest of his life, even if he does stay out of jail.

[Bart]

I love the PD's statement how they found no evidence to doubt Zimmerman's story. So the default now is that what Zimmerman says is true until proven otherwise.

If somebody tells the police something and there's no evidence to doubt their story what do you propose?

Ignore this specific case for a moment and explain what the police should do as a general rule when somebody tells them something and there's no evidence to doubt their story.

Please. I am very interested to hear how you think the criminal justice system should work.

[drjoker]

What made the kid suspicious? He was not breaking in. He was not doing anything illegal.

Was it night time or day time. More likely a horrible misunderstanding at night due to poor visibility but if daytime, more likely racial profiling causing an escalation of events.

Was the place well lit? Was it dusk? Just not enough info yet.

I have encountered crazy neighborhood watchers before. Guys, remember to be friendly to EVERYONE except for those who are observed committimg felonies. Do not appear threatening to anyone, no matter how 'suspicious', because it may be just a terrible misunderstanding. Say howdy and smile. It won't hurt. I promise.

If someone from the hood watch is threatening you, tell him that you've called the cops and s l o w l y get your cell phone to call them. If you live there, pull out your I.D. to prove it. I know, you don't have to do so, but it's better to give in a little than to swap lead. Ask him for his I.d. If you don't know him.

[WildBill]

What made the kid suspicious? He was not breaking in. He was not doing anything illegal.

Mr. Zimmerman claims that he [the yout] was acting like he was under the influence of drugs and was reaching for something in his waistband.

[matriculated]

Is he guilty of murder, manslaughter or some other violation of the penal code?

That I do not know.

I do suspect that Zimmerman will be paying for this financially for the rest of his life, even if he does stay out of jail.

The call he placed to Sanford PD (not 911, as was first thought) proves that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter at the very least. Trayvon presented no threat to Zimmerman. Zimmerman thought Trayvon was "suspicious" for some reason (what 17yo black kid isn't suspicious nowadays to the Zimmermans of the world?). Zimmerman places a call to Sanford PD reporting "suspicious" person. That should have been the end of that. Police would have come out, established that Trayvon was just a kid visiting somebody in the neighborhood, Zimmerman would have proved himself to be a good neighborhood watchman, life is good.

But nooooo. Mr. Vigilante Justice decides that's not enough for him. He has to exit his vehicle, start following the kid, continue to follow the kid after being advised not to, chase him down after kid starts running, and then, after all those extremely unnecessary and clearly escalating actions, "defend" himself from the kid by placing a 9mm round in him. A kid whom he outweighed by a good 100lbs, BTW (as news reports have mentioned). This is ridiculous. This is not self-defense. Trayvon was running away, a key component of self-defense and de-escalation (if you're able to run). Trayvon was engaging in self-defense. Zimmerman engaged in aggressive, hostile behavior that ended with a dead, innocent kid. Zimmerman is either an extremely stupid man, or a psychotic, unbalanced person who was going to end up offing somebody sooner or later. He needs to be put away.