WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

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Excaliber
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#16

Post by Excaliber »

Anonymous123 wrote:Theres more to it.
Homeowner possesed assault rifle of 7.62x39 or 7.62x54 caliber with criminal priors for drug possesions.
AK-47 or Mosin Nagant, possibly any other high calibered rifle.
The projectile entered through suspects chest through collar bone traveling in a sideways path and exited through right arm, blatantly showing that the suspect was standing sideways and did not turn to face the homeowner.
Son is well known drug dealer, extremely violent and dangerous.
IMO Castle law should be reamended to better suit special cases such as these, Criminal on Criminal crimes, no-one is innocent in this case.
Be careful with the facts.

According to the article, the homeowner found his rear door pried and two suspects holding residents of the house at gun point. The suspect then allegedly "turned and pointed his handgun at him" (the homeowner). Starting with a suspect facing directly away (which is not known), a 45 degree turn could accomplish this and a shot fired at that point could easily follow the trajectory outlined above.

Nowhere does the article state that the suspect faced the homeowner directly prior to being shot.

I don't see any apparent contradiction between the homeowner's account and the forensic evidence as described.
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#17

Post by VMI77 »

Anonymous123 wrote: I have clarified the information from a LEO that there was no sign of forced entry to the home. So the Castle Doctrine can justify the shooting/killing of anybody just if they're on your property?
You should read the actual law, and perhaps the case law, on this subject. But first, they were not "on" the property according to the article, they were INSIDE the home. The Castle Doctrine does not apply "on" the property, it applies to forced entry inside the home. There does not have to be any sign of forced entry, such as a damaged door. The door could just be shut but unlocked --the law considers the force of turning the door knob to be forced entry if the person entering is not invited and has no legal right to be there.
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#18

Post by Anonymous123 »

And all of this makes perfect sense, but you do understand the point i'm trying to get across correct?
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#19

Post by Crossfire »

Anonymous123 wrote:And all of this makes perfect sense, but you do understand the point i'm trying to get across correct?
Yeah, I think we get it. You're 17. You still believe that everything you read in a news report is 100% true.

You aren't even CLOSE to old enough to have a Texas CHL, and yet you joined the Texas CHL Forum so that you could comment on this one thread.

You are trying to convict the homeowner, and you don't even understand the law.

So, what is your agenda here?
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#20

Post by ddurkof »

Anonymous123 wrote:On the topic of the stance, The news report says that, the suspect TURNED facing, and ill say it again, facing the homeowner, and by then he had chosen to shoot,.
Why I had brought this up is because, why does the owner feel the need to falsify this claim, trying to justify his right for self-defense, when he has it regardless according to castle doctrine.
Meaning the homeowner more than likely did not shout a warning, prior to releasing the first shot.
Being said, makes the situation more suspicious as to what information or details the homeowner is guarding
Felony/Drug Charges = No gun in Texas. He should not even possess a firearm,. Neither condone the selling of drugs out of his residence, HE IS AWARE, of what his son is doing.
The point of all this is, There is no SET bad guy, both partys are in the wrong, 16 year old with a handgun is someones home is wrong regardless, but why let the drug dealer duo son and father get the justice and glorification of self-defense in this story. I strongly believe that this was a drug deal gone wrong, I have clarified the information from a LEO that there was no sign of forced entry to the home. So the Castle Doctrine can justify the shooting/killing of anybody just if they're on your property? Especially if you're a drug dealer? That is a very illegitimate claim and the law should be discluded if you're conducting illegal activities KNOWING that what you're doing and you are AWARE that you're family is in danger at all times due to criminal conduct. So now due to The State of Texas, the 16 year old is going to face 2-99 prison time, for more than likely a mutual agreement gone sour, while the drug dealer and home owner will continue to orchestrate such events. Justice 0, Morality 0, Criminals 1. I'm 17 years old by the way
Many things happen in gun fights and the police are very good at crime scene reconstruction. People move, twist, turn, etc and the bullet may enter from a side or back, when the threat was perceived head on a few moments before. It happens all of the time.

It could be a drug deal gone bad, but that doesn't relieve the person shot from their poor choice of occupation, aggravated robbery. It is still a self defense claim. A "mutual agreement gone sour" is a civil issue, robbing someone is not. Someone shorts you on some dope, don't buy from him anymore. Go to his house in the middle of the night to recoup your losses, bad things can and do happen.

As for giving a "warning?" None is required, this ain't the movies and I am not John Wayne. Someone in my house in the middle of the night for what ever reason would be shot from the best position I can obtain without any warning. They don't pay me to fight fair, only to win! There is also a saying, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."

Being 17 years old I can give you the benefit of some experience, follow the "3 S" rule: "Don't go Stupid places, do Stupid things, with Stupid people." Follow these rules and you will make it to a ripe old age without being killed or killing anyone.

"Justice" and "Morality" have nothing to do with each other in the real world. The 16 year old made some really poor choices and had a terrible outcome and will face consequences for HIS actions, not the home owner's actions, not the dope dealer's actions, but HIS actions. Sometimes it hurts to violate the "3 S" rule.

One last thing, in gun fights perceptions are not necessarily reality. People will think they only shot once, when they emptied the gun. They will think they did somethings when they didn't and they will have done things that they don't remember. It is well documented in the literature. Here is a link to some good research at the Force Science Institute. http://www.forcescience.org/articles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best wishes and learn from these people's mistakes.
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#21

Post by jmra »

Anonymous 123,
Welcome to the forum, I have a few questions for you.
1. Why did you feel it necessary to tell us you were 17 years old?
2. Why are you so passionate about this issue and this particular event?
3. Do you have a vested interest in the outcome of this case?
4. How is it that you seem to know so much about the people involved in this case?

Again welcome to the forum. I hope you choose to answer these questions honestly. I think it would help us understand where you're coming from.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#22

Post by Anonymous123 »

1. To state that I'm not just an older biased individual, not saying that older people are biased, but with this particular case it seems that the older favor that of the homeowner whilist not knowing the story, and to let you know that i'm rather an open non-opinionated person seeing through from both sides.

2. Because I think this case is utter bull, that a 16 year old is gonna go to prison for 5 - 99 years over a botched drug deal, when the homeowner is JUST as guilty. Maybe the suspect has a mitigating circumstance and was under the influence, which is something that seems to hold up in court today. He has completed a 47 day in-patient drug program and has turned his life around for the better regardless of the fact he is now disabled. It's not only more than obvious that he's not going to get himself into anymore situations, but that he's done something different on his OWN WILL, without the courts or anyone telling him to do so, and that's what correction is all about. But due to the law his life is pratically over if he gets sentenced accordingly. Regardless of these facts, YES he has broken the law, YES he deserves to be punished, but first offense and considering the circumstances of this case, they're going to be talking 10-20 years regardless cause its an AGGRAVATED case. He's going to be 30 or 40 years old when he truly begins to live, he's PARALYZED at 16, while these people CONTINUE to sell drugs and do illegal things while bragging about the situation. Where's the self-defense claim now? You're saying if someone comes into my home and pisses me off I can kill them or try to and brag about it?With the self-defense claim still standing?? Cause that's the case here. It aggravates me beyond belief!! Can you even fathom the fact of waking up to that?? There is nothing I can do, and I didn't come here to get bashed on by moderators and CHL owners. I just wanted to get a record of non-biased, non-opinonated, reactions and statements from general people.

3. Yes I do, To determine whether the Justice System actually CORRECTS the wrong and not just prolongs it by favoring one party over the other.

4.I live in the area, I know many people, The suspect and the homeowner. I have talked to the suspect who does not remember much but has disclosed to me bits of information that I cannot share because this case is still open. While the homeowner is still allowing his son to deal drugs out of the home and the father and son have bragged to several people how they got away with this and how great it was to shoot a young man and beat him after he was shot. Regardless of the fact, humans are humans, and indeed in biblical times it was an eye for an eye, today that is still my motto. But where is the morality in all this? There is none, The Judge and Jury will no doubt take not even a single point of interest in the suspects point of view, which is to be expected.

I just wanted to see how others would react being revealed to this side of the case, As you have only heard one side, the one on the news.
and to whoever saying I believe what is being said on the news, you sir are the one who is using facts from news articles yourself.
I AM educated in the law, don't get me wrong...
I am not here on a mission to make the homeowner look bad, I'm just simply stating both sides of the story
These posts will be my last post, for further questions email me at:

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Last edited by Anonymous123 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#23

Post by Anonymous123 »

Crossfire wrote:
Anonymous123 wrote:And all of this makes perfect sense, but you do understand the point i'm trying to get across correct?
Yeah, I think we get it. You're 17. You still believe that everything you read in a news report is 100% true.

You aren't even CLOSE to old enough to have a Texas CHL, and yet you joined the Texas CHL Forum so that you could comment on this one thread.

You are trying to convict the homeowner, and you don't even understand the law.

So, what is your agenda here?
I understand that you're probably older and possess more knowledge than me, seeing as you're a CHL Instructor and what not.
But you have to see it from the other side of the fence, the situation is wrong regardless, the homeowner had every right.
My point is morality, i'm not trying to convict anybody, i'm just debating his claim of robbery and self-defense, because I strongly believe
that, that was not the case.
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#24

Post by Keith B »

Well, we now see what your agenda was; and that is to see your friend get a lighter sentence. Hopefully, if there are truly mitigating circumstances, then he will get a lighter sentence. However, he should have thought about that before he broke in. And, if the homeowner is truly not doing what they should, they will eventually get theirs, especially if they are running their mouth. However, as I already stated, the police apparently found no evidence of wrong doing on their part as they were not charged.

Bottom line, he did wrong, and he will pay for it. If you dance, you must pay the piper. He is lucky he didn't lose his life in the shooting.

Also, I see you made one more post after your 'last post'.
Keith
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#25

Post by fickman »

Unless a minimum sentence is required by statute, it's very likely that he'll end up with probation if 1) this is truly his first time to run afoul of the law, 2) he did complete the rehab program, and 3) the judge/jury decides that he has learned a lesson from his injuries.

In fact, even if there is a mandatory minimum sentence, if he has a lawyer, cooperates with the DA, and avoided saying something really incriminating when the detectives interviewed him, he could very likely plead guilty to a lesser charge and ensure probation. This is most likely what will happen. (IANAL disclaimer)

As far as "justice" and "morality" go, in this instance, justice was done. The perpetrator broke into a house with a firearm and threatened people. Regardless of his motivations, the scoundrelous nature of his victims, or other historic perceived injustices, in this moment, he was at fault and guilty. He could have - and perhaps should have - lost his life. He should be grateful that he didn't die instead of being angry at others for his current predicament.

If the homeowner is involved in everything you say, then that is for the police to handle. The perpetrator wasn't there as a vigilante to exact justice. Most of the time in life, somebody's actions will catch up with them, whether through the proper channels or not. They often reap the consequences of what they sow. If your portrayals of the homeowner and family are accurate, their day will most likely come.

Still, there is no guarantee of actual justice in this life. That comes afterward. If you hope for true justice, which we all deserve, then don't place your hope in man.

Hebrews 9:27 "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,"

(FWIW: I live just up the street in Keller but hadn't heard much of this story on the local news.)
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#26

Post by VMI77 »

Anonymous123 wrote:But due to the law his life is pratically over if he gets sentenced accordingly.
Wrong. If his life is practically over it is because he CHOSE to commit an illegal act. The law is not at fault, HE is at fault. The law is not to blame for the consequences he brought upon himself, HE is.
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#27

Post by fickman »

VMI77 wrote:
Anonymous123 wrote:But due to the law his life is pratically over if he gets sentenced accordingly.
Wrong. If his life is practically over it is because he CHOSE to commit an illegal act. The law is not at fault, HE is at fault. The law is not to blame for the consequences he brought upon himself, HE is.
:iagree:

I am definitely detecting a lack of personal accountability for the role and consequences of the perpetrator. All of the extenuating circumstances still fail to alleviate the actor's responsibility for his own actions.
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#28

Post by speedsix »

...it's called youthful ignorance...being dragged down the gravel road of life will change a lot of that...
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#29

Post by Crossfire »

Hmmm, reminds me of the three rules of stupid - Don't go to stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things.

Sounds like we managed to accomplish the trifecta!
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Re: WATAUGA, Texas - Home Invasion Suspect Shot

#30

Post by Excaliber »

Crossfire wrote:Hmmm, reminds me of the three rules of stupid - Don't go to stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things.

Sounds like we managed to accomplish the trifecta!
Remember the 4th rule: "Don't do any of the above at stupid times."
Excaliber

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