Aiming properly with both eyes open

[LikesShinyThings]

MoJoeWrkn's post about Shooting with both eyes open got me thinking about my trying to aim with both eyes open.

My dominant eye seems to be dependent on the contrast downrange. While I am mostly right eye dominant, there are plenty enough times where my left eye has more contrast and grabs dominance. At least that's how it feels to me - the only way I know for sure I am looking at the correct rear sight lining up with the correct front sight lining up with the correct target is to close my left eye. Lots of times I do this and I find out I'm fine and good to go. But almost as often I find out yup, left eye was screwing me up.

Is this common, or am I really as strange as my husband says I am?

More importantly, though, does anyone have suggestions on what I might do to better be able to know I'm lined up correctly without closing that pesky left eye?

[cbunt1]

For once I'm without "advice" either good or otherwise.

I can tell you it's not as unusual as you might think. My wife, who is left-handed, cannot seem to establish eye-dominance through any method she's tried. She even has tried shooting with a focus on one eye over the other.

To some degree, it's probably actually an advantage, but for iron-sight shooting it has been a real challenge for her.

I'll be watching this thread with great interest.

[LittleGun]

I shoot with both eyes open. It feels natural to me. I am right-eye dominant, but did not know it until someone pointed it out to me. It never mattered to me which I was dominant.

I even shoot rifle with both eyes open. Again it is natural for me. It seems to me that if you shoot with both eyes open, it doesn't matter which eye is dominant for any particlar situation; that the brain should integrate the scene.

I'm not a vision specialist. I'm just musing.

[LikesShinyThings]

I shoot with both eyes open. It feels natural to me. I am right-eye dominant, but did not know it until someone pointed it out to me. It never mattered to me which I was dominant.

I even shoot rifle with both eyes open. Again it is natural for me. It seems to me that if you shoot with both eyes open, it doesn't matter which eye is dominant for any particlar situation; that the brain should integrate the scene.

I'm not a vision specialist. I'm just musing.

Wow. I can't even imagine this. I would say you are lucky, except that maybe yours is the norm. I dunno. I'm sure happy for you. That has to be nice.

If I have both eyes open, as often as not I couldn't tell you where the gun was pointed - my right eye rear sight could very easily line up with my left eye front sight, putting the gun aimed seriously cross-range. I really honestly (often) can not tell which image goes with which eye, and it is definitively not an automatic thing for me to have it line up correctly.

I guess that may be part of the challenge for me - my brain doesn't seem to automatically integrate the scene. Hmmm... wonder if there is a way I can train it. How do I make it recognize that rear sight 1 goes with front sight 1? How do I make it recognize the continuity of image and not let the other eye's input confuse the issue? (musing out loud, myself)

[speedsix]

...I'm extremely left-handed...but shoot a rifle/shotgun from the right shoulder...I'm right eye dominant and shoot with both eyes open...

[LittleGun]

I had assumed that most people shoot with both eyes open. Now I wonder if it is the other way around.

Interestingly I keep both eyes open while looking through the viewfinder of a camera. I didn't think that was unusual until someone pointed it out to me.

I don't know why I prefer it that way and I don't know how eye-to-brain stuff works. Maybe a vision specialist will tell us.

[koolaid]

I have this problem shooting pistols. Rifles I don't have this problem at all.

I think it is because with rifles you tend to be up a lot closer to the rear sight and it blocks out some of the distraction from the right eye.

Our bodies/brains are weird things.

[Paladin]

for sighted shooting, I'd suggest training to close one eye. That way you will always be consistent. Consistency is vital to developing accuracy.

For target focused shooting, just keep 'em both open Kill or get Killed. You simply index your body and the gun to the target.

[LikesShinyThings]

for sighed shooting, I'd suggest training to close one eye. That way you will always be consistent. Consistency is vital to developing accuracy.

For target focused shooting, just keep 'em both open Kill or get Killed. You simply index your body and the gun to the target.

LOL. That reminds me of the first (and only) time I tried to "aim by pointing my index finger at the target" (during a class related to defensive shooting). I missed so badly it wasn't even funny. It's years ago now, so my memory is getting foggy, but I don't think I even hit the target - a paper plate at something like 3 or 5 yards. That was the same class where I was told "shoot with both eyes open" and discovered that I have this problem of what I not-so-fondly call "conditional dominance" with my eyes.

[Paladin]

for sighed shooting, I'd suggest training to close one eye. That way you will always be consistent. Consistency is vital to developing accuracy.

For target focused shooting, just keep 'em both open Kill or get Killed. You simply index your body and the gun to the target.

LOL. That reminds me of the first (and only) time I tried to "aim by pointing my index finger at the target" (during a class related to defensive shooting). I missed so badly it wasn't even funny. It's years ago now, so my memory is getting foggy, but I don't think I even hit the target - a paper plate at something like 3 or 5 yards. That was the same class where I was told "shoot with both eyes open" and discovered that I have this problem of what I not-so-fondly call "conditional dominance" with my eyes.

Sounds like a second rate instructor.

Target focused shooting takes technique and practice. With proper technique I get consistently hit head-shots at 20ft using target focused shooting. In an actual gunfight the mind tends to naturally focus on the threat. Very useful combat technique for inside 20ft. Col. Applegate ran the tests to prove it long before I was born.

[magillapd]

I am working on shooting with both eyes open. I've gotten much better, but still have a ways to go. I take my time tho when working on this. I aim center mass and index the gun straight ahead. I lift the front of the gun to acquire the front site then lower it into the rear site. I have found that that this works ok, and my dominate eye picks right up on it.

I have found that many times I was leaning my head into the sights like I do with a rifle and I don't do very good at all that way.

I don't think I'll ever be a bullseye shooter, but I'm getting better.

[57Coastie]

An interesting discussion, which merits a lot of thought, but IMHO I do not see enough distinction across the board between bullseye shooting and self-defense shooting. I think that many shooters can draw a distinct line between them, along the lines perhaps that I do.

First, it must be noted that I am not a youngster. As I approach four-score years the eyes are not what they once were, and the wobble-zone has enlarged itself. I am still satisfied, though, if I feel I have done my best.

The major difference between bullseye and self-defense shooting, in my case, is timing. In general, regardless of the bullseye course of fire, gained through experience one always has plenty of time to establish his preferred stance, acquire and maintain his preferred grip, acquire the target with correct sight alignment. use the shooter's preferred breathing technique and utilize correct trigger control. All this being accomplished, absent the human body's natural anticipation, leading to flinching, one should do his best. Perfect? Of course not, but consistency is likely, and then one can worry about the little things that make the difference between a fine marksman and others.

I found out early on in my training, many long years ago, that keeping both eyes open eliminates an unwanted element, the interaction between body and mind required to shut one eye. All unnecessary elements should be eliminated, with all one's concentration on the task at hand. I had to work both on the range and dry firing at home for many hours, days and months, to learn to keep both eyes open. It is unnatural. And here I mean keeping both eyes open until the weapon has fired, and I see the traces of burning powder flying out the muzzle in weird directions. Not just until I pull, squeeze, caress (or what have you) the trigger. If my eyes are not open when the handgun fires I will guarantee you that I have no idea where the weapon was pointing at that moment -- not within the dimensions required of good marksmanship.

I have special tools for bullseye shooting, namely shooting glasses with the right lens cut by my faithful and understanding optometrist to focus on the front sight. Certainly we all know by now that the human eye can focus at only one distance at one time, and that of the three options normally available to the bullseye shooter nothing takes precedence over the front sight. The left lens is black, thereby eliminating the down-side of shooting with both eyes open -- the distraction of likely seeing two targets and/or two sets of sights. Again, something I do not have to worry about.

By forcing both eyes open through the years I have taught my subconscious that the noise and flame produced by the weapon are not going to hurt me, and hopefully I have eliminated anticipation and the resultant flinching by harsh and difficult training of my mind and body.

It works for me, but I would be foolishly arrogant to suggest that it would work for everyone. I did learn, however, early in my learning process, to try anything which might help me, and then decide whether or not it helps. But I always try it first.

Self-defense shooting is of course a different ballgame. I cannot expect to have all the time in the world available to me, nor would I expect to be able to ask the BG to give me time to get out my shooting glasses, adopt a classic stance, and do all the other things mentioned above (including of course those I forget at the moment). I do have some different tools available for self-defense shooting and on scene at all times. My primary carry weapon is a Colt Defender (.45) with Big Dot iron sights and a CT laser affixed. I could never be a bullseye marksman using the Big Dot, but it will put two in center of mass quickly at any reasonable self-defense distance, with the third, taken a little more slowly, a clean head shot if needed. I have no expectation of ever using the laser for targeting and firing in a self-defense situation, but it just might permit me some day to terminate a threat without firing my weapon. And you just cannot beat a laser for checking on and confirming your trigger control both on and off the range.

The moral of this long story is that one size does not fit all, and that we are well-advised to assess the kind of uses to which we are likely to put these deadly weapons of ours and adjust our thinking, attitude and way of doing things to those different uses.

Jim

PS To those who knew me in a prior life, it is nice to be back. I will try to be more silent in the future.

[WildBill]

PS To those who knew me in a prior life, it is nice to be back. I will try to be more silent in the future.

Welcome back and post away Jim.

[urnoodle]

I have been working on aiming with both eyes open. I haven't found it easy. I had always assumed because I'm right handed, I'd be right eye dominant. I found out about a month ago I am left eye dominant. I'm still struggling a bit with hitting the target in the sweet spot with both eyes open. I was given a suggestion to shoot left handed. I tried it out this weekend. I hit the bullseye more frequently with a tighter group than I do right handed however the pistol feels more awkward in my left hand.

So is it better that I practice left handed and become more accustomed to left hand shooting, practice shooting right handed until I get better at it or cover my left eye so that my right eye becomes more dominant?

[C-dub]

PS To those who knew me in a prior life, it is nice to be back. I will try to be more silent in the future.

Welcome back and post away Jim.

Don't worry about it. I've enjoyed many of your posts and learned from them.

I am left eye dominant, something I only realized in the past year, and have been trying to train myself to shoot more often with my right eye when I use a handgun. In the past I automatically used my left eye for handguns, but still used my right eye for rifles. Since forcing myself to use my right eye for handguns my marksmanship with them had gotten better. I've tried shooting with both eyes open, but it feels too weird. After several months of shooting handguns with my right eye it feels more natural and is nearly automatic.