incident with Johnson County Sheriff

[Originalist]

I like you, for what my opinion is worth..... I just picked wine coolers over other drinks as it was in the topic of real world conversation I was having while reading the thread. I completely see what you are saying with respect to the container, lets say its a cooler, that can hold 10 but you only put 4 in there.... To me that is a lot different than the open case, etc. Then each bottle/can would be the container. To me that is a lot different then throwing your freshly purchased 6 pack in the passenger seat and downing them as you drive, disposing of the empties along the highway...

Playing devils advocate, lets say the reason I got what I got was because the DWI was used as prima facie evidence, I dont know....

There is a big difference between those of us who enforce the law and those who prosecute it.... I don't want anyone to think I just arbitrarily pick things and I try my best to be very literal on everything, ask my wife.... I know I get away easy in federal court because petty offenses (6mo confinement or less) is judge only but I do look forward to a career in LE here in Texas so I am up for any education I can get... I too would be interested in what legal opinion is rendered and by whom.

I am interested to learn how connected because I have some AF SJA's that could be education on the fact a minor, with any detectable amount of alcohol, in there system is DUI.... even if there is a BAC of 0.003.... not to mention Spice in their system.... I think that meets the definition of alcohol and/or drugs or for a stretch any other substance.... perhaps even a combination of both... :-).... besides, its always good to know people in the know..... The debate has been fun and kept me interested while I pass the time on this deployment and if you are right I will gladly scede, I'm not too hard headed for that!

[E.Marquez]

Even simpler: Don't do anything that will get you pulled over. ;)

So you have never had a license plate light out? tail light. Been guilty of driving late at night in a part of town known for ______ fill in the blank,, and stopped just because?

Most adults I know have been.. and every officer I know, have known over 47 years has told me flat out... if they want to pull someone over to contact them, then they can find a reason within just a few minutes of following them. Having absolute ability to articulate PC or RS for the contact. I've played that game a bunch of times, while doing ride along or just traveling with a LEO friend in the car. And lost the bet each time. .. Too long at a stop sign, to short, touched a lane marker, turn too fast, too slow, too wide, "swerving". License plate light out, plate frame masking some part of the plate text, smoked light covers, something hanging from the rear view mirror obstructing view, sitting on the rear shelf by the window obstructing view. Tinting of any color or grade (got to make the contact to confirm it's legal.... Driving too fast, too slow,,,, and the list goes on. a LEO can find PC or RS within minutes most any time they want.... The vast majority seem to do that for good use

[Originalist]

Even simpler: Don't do anything that will get you pulled over. ;)

So you have never had a license plate light out? tail light. Been guilty of driving late at night in a part of town known for ______ fill in the blank,, and stopped just because?

Most adults I know have been.. and every office I know, have known over 47 years has told me flat out... if they want to pull someone over an contact them, then can find a reason within just a few minutes of following them. Having absolute ability to articulate PC or RS for the contact. I've played that game a bunch of times, while doing ride along or just traveling with a LEO friend in the car. And lost the bet each time... Too long at a stop sign, to short, touched a lane marker, turn too fast, too slow, too wide, "swerving". License plate light out, plate frame masking some part of the plate text, smoked light covers, something hanging from the rear view mirror, sitting on the rear shelf by the window. Tinting of any color or grade.... Driving too fast, too slow,,,, and the list goes on. a LEO can find PC or RS within minutes most any time they want.... The vast majority seem to do that for good use

In fact, if one thing can be found to warrant a traffic stop most likely there is at least one more reason out there....

[alexrex20]

Even simpler: Don't do anything that will get you pulled over. ;)

So you have never had a license plate light out? tail light. Been guilty of driving late at night in a part of town known for ______ fill in the blank,, and stopped just because?

Most adults I know have been.. and every officer I know, have known over 47 years has told me flat out... if they want to pull someone over to contact them, then they can find a reason within just a few minutes of following them. Having absolute ability to articulate PC or RS for the contact. I've played that game a bunch of times, while doing ride along or just traveling with a LEO friend in the car. And lost the bet each time. .. Too long at a stop sign, to short, touched a lane marker, turn too fast, too slow, too wide, "swerving". License plate light out, plate frame masking some part of the plate text, smoked light covers, something hanging from the rear view mirror obstructing view, sitting on the rear shelf by the window obstructing view. Tinting of any color or grade (got to make the contact to confirm it's legal.... Driving too fast, too slow,,,, and the list goes on. a LEO can find PC or RS within minutes most any time they want.... The vast majority seem to do that for good use

Yes, I have been pulled over 3 times in 1 mile (to Chilifest) for no front plate, then pulled over that night for no rear license plate lights. I was given written and verbal warnings.

If you're so worried that breaking other laws will get you pulled over, then maybe you should put your alcohol in the trunk. Or stop drinking and driving. :rolleyes: It really is THAT simple.

I don't have frames around my license plate because I know it is illegal. I don't have tinted tail lights because I know it's illegal and stupid and unsafe. I don't have anything hanging from my rear-view mirror because it is unsafe. I don't have anything sitting on the rear shelf that's obstructing view because, well, it's obstructing my view and thus unsafe. I don't have any darker tint than what comes from the factory because I know dark tint is illegal.

Maybe you should just start obeying the law, instead of finding ways to not get caught doing Illegal Act #2 when you get pulled over for Illegal Act #1.

[steveincowtown]

Maybe you should just start obeying the law, instead of finding ways to not get caught doing Illegal Act #2 when you get pulled over for Illegal Act #1.

It is well documented on this forum, through the statements of LEO's that if they want to pull you over, they will find probable cause. There was even anecdotal reference to a DPS (IIRC) Trooper saying that any cop that new his traffic code thoroughly could pull over a car as it left the showroom floor.

Just saying...not sure the "just obeying the law"= never getting pulled over.

[alexrex20]

Maybe you should just start obeying the law, instead of finding ways to not get caught doing Illegal Act #2 when you get pulled over for Illegal Act #1.

It is well documented on this forum, through the statements of LEO's that if they want to pull you over, they will find probable cause. There was even anecdotal reference to a DPS (IIRC) Trooper saying that any cop that new his traffic code thoroughly could pull over a car as it left the showroom floor.

Just saying...not sure the "just obeying the law"= never getting pulled over.

I never said it did. But there's a big difference between a LEO pulling you over because he feels like and will find probable cause after the fact, and a LEO pulling you over because you have limo tint, smoked tail lights, no front plate, and a frame around the rear plate, then finding out you also have an open container of alcohol in the cabin because you were too lazy to put it in the trunk.

And it all still simplifies back to the fact that if you put your alcohol in the trunk, then you don't need to worry about getting cited.

[CheckonChico]

If you're so worried that breaking other laws will get you pulled over, then maybe you should put your alcohol in the trunk. Or stop drinking and driving. :rolleyes: It really is THAT simple.

responsible drinking and driving is not illegal, if that was the cause restaurants wouldn't serve alcohol. I don't condone it...just sayin

BTW, 67 posts? Wow! Not bad for my second thread

[alexrex20]

If you're so worried that breaking other laws will get you pulled over, then maybe you should put your alcohol in the trunk. Or stop drinking and driving. :rolleyes: It really is THAT simple.

responsible drinking and driving is not illegal, if that was the cause restaurants wouldn't serve alcohol. I don't condone it...just sayin

BTW, 67 posts? Wow! Not bad for my second thread

Actually, it is 100% illegal to consume alcohol while you're operating a motor vehicle, aka drinking and driving.

[CheckonChico]

You're correct! I meant drinking then driving. I withdraw my argument

[puma guy]

If you're not drinking and driving, and truly only transporting the alcohol, then put it in the trunk.

It's pretty simple.

Nothing like this is ever that simple, unless one wants to ignore reality , and find a simple solution that fits a short sighted opinion.

Life has many more twists and turns then to be fixed in a simple catch all clause or statement.

Many times I do not want to open my truck to place the days HEB purchase in. Or a follow on stop at some other store.. I have things in my trunk I would rather not show parking lot crawlers. That means two or more bags of stuff are going in my back seat,,, The way AFCOP has interpreted the law (Unlike I've ever seen it done so before) I can be charged when he finds my wine bottle "Container" only has 2 bottles, and not the four it might possible hold. Or the "container" provided to hold UP TO 6 bottles of beer, but I chose only 3, or 4, or 5 that day.. And Not that I drink beer from a can (ya Im a beer snob, get over it i have ) But with cardboard soda containers, I find they bust open on me about 2 / 10 times... if that was beer, a can would likely be lost in such an event, like I loose a soda can now an again in the parking lot. I would be charged by AFCOP for having an open "container".

An interesting issue, and one that will be brought up with the appropriate military authorities, as well as my representative for an AG ruling as I believe, AFCOP has interpreted a law, in a manner to which it was not anticipated, and even when done in good faith is a grievous mistake and one that should be corrected.

Actually the way AFCop is interpreting the law the container i.e. a box holding 24 cans only has to have the "seal" open ( box torn) a few full cans lying i.e. on the floor i.e. contents removed. They don't have to be missing which everyone is dwelling on. I don't even drink beer. but I have purchased it when my son-in-laws are coming to town for a get together. I am driving home in my SUV with no place to secure the six pack and I turn a corner and the carton tips over and a bottle or two slides out of the receptacle. Guilty as charged if AFCop should stop me I guess . I've only had two tickets in 50 years of driving so I don't think there's much chance I'll be stopped, but you never know. I was pulled over in my twenties because the officer thought I may be up to no good. No infraction whatsoever, just driving home from my job. The only reason he lightened up was because he knew my Dad. In fairness to AFCop I assume all this is predicated on his suspicion that the driver has consumed alcohol by actions or smelling it.

[Originalist]

I have a SUV as well as long as it is behind the furthest rear seat it is not considered in the passenger compartment. If you have a six pack and it falls over and 2 bottles fall out, they are there and if a question were to arise, simply put those two back in the container and then the contents are no longer partially removed.

Missing would work, but I was specifically demonstrating all cans present, void of any alcohol but advocating my point on the word OR and the absence or present of alcohol.

[jordanusmc]

I do not know the legality's of Texas laws but at MP school they always stressed to us that "alcohol is an odorless drug" thus how could he have smelled it. The officer does not smell alcohol per say he simply smells all of the other ingredients and flavorings.

[E.Marquez]

Even simpler: Don't do anything that will get you pulled over. ;)

So you have never had a license plate light out? tail light. Been guilty of driving late at night in a part of town known for ______ fill in the blank,, and stopped just because?

Most adults I know have been.. and every officer I know, have known over 47 years has told me flat out... if they want to pull someone over to contact them, then they can find a reason within just a few minutes of following them. Having absolute ability to articulate PC or RS for the contact. I've played that game a bunch of times, while doing ride along or just traveling with a LEO friend in the car. And lost the bet each time. .. Too long at a stop sign, to short, touched a lane marker, turn too fast, too slow, too wide, "swerving". License plate light out, plate frame masking some part of the plate text, smoked light covers, something hanging from the rear view mirror obstructing view, sitting on the rear shelf by the window obstructing view. Tinting of any color or grade (got to make the contact to confirm it's legal.... Driving too fast, too slow,,,, and the list goes on. a LEO can find PC or RS within minutes most any time they want.... The vast majority seem to do that for good use

Yes, I have been pulled over 3 times in 1 mile (to Chilifest) for no front plate, then pulled over that night for no rear license plate lights. I was given written and verbal warnings.

If you're so worried that breaking other laws will get you pulled over, then maybe you should put your alcohol in the trunk. Or stop drinking and driving. :rolleyes: It really is THAT simple.

I don't have frames around my license plate because I know it is illegal. I don't have tinted tail lights because I know it's illegal and stupid and unsafe. I don't have anything hanging from my rear-view mirror because it is unsafe. I don't have anything sitting on the rear shelf that's obstructing view because, well, it's obstructing my view and thus unsafe. I don't have any darker tint than what comes from the factory because I know dark tint is illegal.

Maybe you should just start obeying the law, instead of finding ways to not get caught doing Illegal Act #2 when you get pulled over for Illegal Act #1.

As the group here tends to be honest and not troll others posts, I can only assume you simply did not take time to read what has been posted and or are very inexperienced in life..perhaps both/ (and age is not assurance of ones education or experience)
The point of discussion in the last few posts has not been drinking and driving, that’s clear if you read and comprehend what has been written, and understand.

What is also unchallenged is the ability of even a mediocre LEO’s ability to find PC or RS and pull over a driver to make contact… One does not have to be “doing Illegal Act” as you so imply. That is also very clear to anyone who READS what has been posted.. the Assumption you made about all sorts of illegal activity that you injected in to this discussion is just nonsense.

You are also incorrect in your statement “I don't have frames around my license plate because I know it is illegal” There is nothing illegal about a license plate frame, unless it obscures the text or stickers, etc.. Were you not aware of that? If so, or not.. How interesting that you involved yourself in a discussion you neither read and comprehend and or make statements of fact that are obviously incorrect to anyone who spends even seconds searching out factual information..

502.409. WRONG, FICTITIOUS, ALTERED, OR OBSCURED
LICENSE PLATE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person
attaches to or displays on a motor vehicle a number plate or
registration insignia that:
(1) is assigned to a different motor vehicle;
(2) is assigned to the vehicle under any other motor
vehicle law other than by the department;
(3) is assigned for a registration period other than
the registration period in effect;
(4) is fictitious;
(5) has letters, numbers, or other identification
marks that because of blurring or reflective matter are not plainly
visible at all times during daylight;
(6) has an attached illuminated device or sticker,
decal, emblem, or other insignia that is not authorized by law and
that interferes with the readability of the letters or numbers on
the plate or the name of the state in which the vehicle is
registered; or
(7) has a coating, covering, or protective material
that:
(A) distorts angular visibility or
detectability; or
(B) alters or obscures the letters or numbers on
the plate, the color of the plate, or another original design
feature of the plate.

Further your statement on tinting in Texas is also wrong and misleading. I'll let you look that one up as it has nothing to do with this thread.
Please I welcome your opinion ON THE TOPIC, and as part of the discussion.. but please read what has been written, perhaps do a few second of research before posting nonsense that only dilutes what good information others are adding.

[alexrex20]

On topic? You responded to my on-topic post with your comments about window tint, license plate frames, etc. Yes I am aware that plate frames are only illegal if they obscure the text. I'm also aware that most window tinting is legal. I apologize if I was not specific in my post to differentiate between legal tint and illegal tint.

If window tinting and license plates have "nothing to do with this thread," then why did YOU introduce it? Oh wait, I can think of a few reasons. :rolleyes:

So, bronco78, how dark is your window tint and where can I get my tail lights smoked? I want to murder out my ride as well, even though I know it's unsafe and illegal. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[alexrex20]

In case you missed it, don't remember what you wrote, don't know how to read, or just blindly bang away at a keyboard without really knowing what you're talking about...

Even simpler: Don't do anything that will get you pulled over. ;)

So you have never had a license plate light out? tail light. Been guilty of driving late at night in a part of town known for ______ fill in the blank,, and stopped just because?

Most adults I know have been.. and every officer I know, have known over 47 years has told me flat out... if they want to pull someone over to contact them, then they can find a reason within just a few minutes of following them. Having absolute ability to articulate PC or RS for the contact. I've played that game a bunch of times, while doing ride along or just traveling with a LEO friend in the car. And lost the bet each time. .. Too long at a stop sign, to short, touched a lane marker, turn too fast, too slow, too wide, "swerving". License plate light out, plate frame masking some part of the plate text, smoked light covers, something hanging from the rear view mirror obstructing view, sitting on the rear shelf by the window obstructing view. Tinting of any color or grade (got to make the contact to confirm it's legal.... Driving too fast, too slow,,,, and the list goes on. a LEO can find PC or RS within minutes most any time they want.... The vast majority seem to do that for good use

Now who injected what again?