Please help clarify my understanding of 30.06

[Scott Farkus]

I thought I understood this but I took my CHL class over the weekend and came away confused. I searched the forum for answers and now I'm even more confused.

My basic understanding was that a CHL holder could legally carry anywhere a 30.06 or 51% sign was not posted, except for the various exceptions specified in 46.035 (schools, sporting events, courthouses, etc.) and of course federal properties. It was my understanding that those exceptions listed in 46.035 did not need a 30.06 - they were off limits by virtue of the statute saying so. Is this correct?

Now, I noticed that churches and hospitals are still on the 46.035 list, and I was almost certain that concealed carry was now up to the individual church or hospital. Further, someone in class noted that Seton hospital in Austin has a non-compliant sign posted, and the instructor said that they were "grandfathered". I think he was wrong about the "grandfathering" stuff, but apparently there is another section of the Penal Code that exempts churches and hospitals from being statutorily off-limits, but allows them to post a 30.06 if they want to. Is that correct and if so, what is the citation because I can't find it?

Finally, and this may be the most important one, it was also my understanding that state, county, city, and other non-federal governmental entities could not post 30.06 signs unless they fell under one of the 46.035 exceptions. Austin City Hall has a 30.06 sign posted, and they have metal detectors at both entrances to the building. As far as I can tell, there are no courtrooms in the new City Hall. I know they have City Council and probably many other official government meetings there, but the 30.06 signs are posted whether there is a meeting going on or not. Further, even if there is a meeting going on, as I read the statute you are only prohibited from carrying in to the meeting itself, not the entire building. What am I missing?

[Hoosier Daddy]

You're missing that many politicians, especially in Austin ironically, would have sided with Santa Anna instead of Austin.

[Beiruty]

Church , Mosques, etc, and hospitals are NOT off-limits unless they are posted 30.06. Zealous PD can arrest you, but the law says those places are not-off limit unless posted (as per law) with a valid 30.06 sign.

as the for non-federal gvverment in TX. you are correct in your understanding. Howerver, many cities do not follow the law. You can either write to the city manager, counsel, or sue the city.

[Scott Farkus]

Church , Mosques, etc, and hospitals are NOT off-limits unless they are posted 30.06. Zealous PD can arrest you, but the law says those places are not-off limit unless posted (as per law) with a valid 30.06 sign.

Yes, but hospitals are listed as statutorily off-limits in 46.035(b)(4) and churches/mosques in 46.035(b)(6). I'm missing something.

[RottenApple]

The answer to your first 2 questions is in TPC 46.035 (the red is the key to the churches, hospitals, amusement parks, etc):

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e)
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical
reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas
Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

As for government offices posting 30.06 signs, there's nothing in the law that says they can't post them, just that it's not enforceable. Of course, if the metal detector goes off and security finds you with a firearm, you may then be told you can't carry there. That would be effective notice under 30.06.

[Beiruty]

As for government offices posting 30.06 signs, there's nothing in the law that says they can't post them, just that it's not enforceable. Of course, if the metal detector goes off and security finds you with a firearm, you may then be told you can't carry there. That would be effective notice under 30.06.

I guess your are wrong in regard of verbal notice in non-federal governmental building. They can't deny you from carrying. Same is the case for TX state Capitol. CHler are exempt from the metal detector and they let you pass in the fast lane.

see here: http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/texa ... dings.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Scott Farkus]

RottenApple - THANK YOU!!! That's what I was missing. I will sleep better tonight.

As far as the government offices, I thought they weren't allowed to prohibit CHL holders at all (other than the specified exceptions), not just with a 30.06 sign. You're saying they can give oral notice and it's valid? That doesn't make sense.

Notwithstanding that, is my understanding of "government meeting" correct? As I read the statute, you just can't carry into the meeting itself, not the entire building, right?

[Scott in Houston]

RottenApple - THANK YOU!!! That's what I was missing. I will sleep better tonight.

As far as the government offices, I thought they weren't allowed to prohibit CHL holders at all (other than the specified exceptions), not just with a 30.06 sign. You're saying they can give oral notice and it's valid? That doesn't make sense.

Notwithstanding that, is my understanding of "government meeting" correct? As I read the statute, you just can't carry into the meeting itself, not the entire building, right?

First off. Love the screen name. On some forums I go by "Bumpus Hounds".

To answer you're question, your understanding is correct. They cannot give verbal or print notice in non-Fed government buildings.

As for "meetings" that hasn't been tested in court. I don't think there's a definitive answer yet.

[i8godzilla]

Maybe Texas needs a law like the one recently passed in Florida.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/30/2 ... et-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now the state has the power to punish local government officials who continue enforcing their own firearm laws. That means if a city commissioner, city manager or even a police chief upholds a gun restriction law that differs from the state’s, they can be fined personally up to $5,000 and be fired or removed from office.

Further, a person charged with breaking a local gun law — not a state law — can take the municipality to court and be awarded damages up to $100,000.

That left many officials smoking angry.

“It looks like we might have to pack and load,” said Dania Beach Commissioner Bobbie Grace.

Since June, local governments have been scrambling during their commission meetings to repeal their own gun laws.

[Hoosier Daddy]

As for government offices posting 30.06 signs, there's nothing in the law that says they can't post them, just that it's not enforceable. Of course, if the metal detector goes off and security finds you with a firearm, you may then be told you can't carry there. That would be effective notice under 30.06.

It's notice in the same way a 30.06 sign is notice. No more, no less.

They don't have to allow you in, but it looks like you wouldn't be violating the 30.06 rule if you sneak it in.

[Scott in Houston]

That is awesome!!! Go Florida. I love their gun friendliness.

[Scott Farkus]

As for government offices posting 30.06 signs, there's nothing in the law that says they can't post them, just that it's not enforceable. Of course, if the metal detector goes off and security finds you with a firearm, you may then be told you can't carry there. That would be effective notice under 30.06.

It's notice in the same way a 30.06 sign is notice. No more, no less.

They don't have to allow you in, but it looks like you wouldn't be violating the 30.06 rule if you sneak it in.

This does not sound right to me. The statute seems pretty clear that 30.06 is not applicable to government entities that don't fall under one of the specified exceptions. We talk a lot about the 30.06 sign, but all "notice" is covered under 30.06 and government entities are explicitly exempted from it. How can they not allow me in?

[Beiruty]

30.06 is for all type of notices: Verbal, Written (hand passed card) or 30.06 notice that we see at some hospitals. All fall under the same 30.06.
In Short, unless there is government meeting, court, and the place is posted 30.06 you can walk in and you can't be arrested for Trespassing by CHLer.

If you do not believe me call DPS and ask for yourself.

[Scott in Houston]

As for government offices posting 30.06 signs, there's nothing in the law that says they can't post them, just that it's not enforceable. Of course, if the metal detector goes off and security finds you with a firearm, you may then be told you can't carry there. That would be effective notice under 30.06.

It's notice in the same way a 30.06 sign is notice. No more, no less.

They don't have to allow you in, but it looks like you wouldn't be violating the 30.06 rule if you sneak it in.

This is incorrect.

[Hoosier Daddy]

As for government offices posting 30.06 signs, there's nothing in the law that says they can't post them, just that it's not enforceable. Of course, if the metal detector goes off and security finds you with a firearm, you may then be told you can't carry there. That would be effective notice under 30.06.

It's notice in the same way a 30.06 sign is notice. No more, no less.

They don't have to allow you in, but it looks like you wouldn't be violating the 30.06 rule if you sneak it in.

This does not sound right to me. The statute seems pretty clear that 30.06 is not applicable to government entities that don't fall under one of the specified exceptions. We talk a lot about the 30.06 sign, but all "notice" is covered under 30.06 and government entities are explicitly exempted from it. How can they not allow me in?

The same way a courthouse can refuse to let you in with a pocket knife, even if there's no law prohibiting pocket knives.