Pros and cons of SA and DA

[S&Wgrl]

Please keep in mind that I've only shot one gun in my life and that is the one I bought myself less than a month ago. I have a S&W 9mm and it is DA. I really love shooting it. Of course I don't have too much to compare it to. I've shot a .22, .380, mine and that is it. I've read a little about SA and DA but don't know enough of why one or the other is better. Can someone please enlighten me?

[RPB]

Actually, there's at least one more category neither single nor double action, not sure what it's called

Example, striker fired, like a Glock

A Glock and many striker fired guns are not carried fully cocked , yet the trigger pulling does not fully cock them.

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Mainly what you should be concerned with these days, rather than DA/SA (in my opinion) is "trigger pull"

Example" I have a Double Action Taurus revolver with a heavy trigger pull to cock it ... that I can't hit a barn with firing double action (pulling trigger cocks, then fires)

Same gun if I cock it, has a light trigger pull to fire it and it's very accurate.

This is why guns like 1911s, Glocks etc have various triggers you can get.

Getting a double action with a hammer and cocking it, leads a lawyer suing you to maybe claim it accidentally went off with the light trigger (Negligent homicide instead of firing on purpose in self defense)

Many guns are DA/sa meaning if you do not carry cocked and locked (cocked with safety on) they''ll fire first shot DA (cocks, then fires, but subsequent shots SA (slide cocked it after firing the first shot) so your first shot and second shot have different trigger pull weights.
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DAO = Double Action Only, such as many semi-auto/hammerless revolvers have a heavy trigger pull every shot, the hammer decocks after each shot, ... every shot cocks ... then fires (hammer may not be visible, many recess the hammer)

But, just because you do not see a hammer, it does not mean it is DAO nor double action nor DA/SA ... it only means you don't see a hammer, it might be striker fired or hammerless.

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Seriously, rather than worry about the mechanics/ inertia firing pin whatever, try several and concern yourself with if you like the trigger and recoil and can hit the 10-ring ... or the barn ...or not

I look at, how fast and accurate is my SECOND shot ( can I be on target FAST with it?) I don't count on a bad guy watching enough movies to know he's supposed to fall down after just one tiny hole is made. Can I re-acquire a sight picture fast and be on target fast and accurate the second/subsequent shots?

That's the only disadvantage to a DA/SA first shot Double action/cocks and fires-second shot is already cocked by slide movement from first shot ...second trigger pull weight different than the first, that I notice, so guns like a 1911/P238/Taurus PT-92 etc I carry cocked and locked (cocked with safety on)

If I recall, HK P7 uses a lever under the front of the grip to cock, and trigger to fire with consistent trigger pull weight from shot to shot, it's a great gun if you are rich (You probably won't find one for sale)


Again. don't worry about DA/SA engineering/design etc so much right now, try guns, get what works for you.
Study features, study procedures how to clear jams etc tap/rack/bang, study safety ... later you can learn engineering
BTW
TAURUS PT709
Features
FIrst Shot is SA (good trigger pull) subsequent shots are too really I believe, but they call it a SA/DA (not DA/SA) because if a round does not fire, you can pull trigger again on the same round (if it had a hard primer/light hammer strike etc) and try that same round again (It recocks and fires with 1 pull) THEN if the "second chance" still does not work, you can treat it like any other gun, clear the dud round and insert new by racking the slide once. "Double strike capable" ... I like that feature. It's a main reason I got that model.

[Greybeard]

In simple terms, "single action" means pulling the trigger performs a single function. It drops the hammer. Such guns commnly have a pretty light trigger pull (and many have a manual safety).

"Double action" means pulling the trigger both cocks the hammer and drops the hammer. Such guns typically have a longer and heavier trigger pull (at least for the first shot, unless manually cocked).

"double action only" is generally just that. They can not be fire from a single action mode. The enclosed hammer revolvers are a good example. Many semi-autos fall into this category too. The Kahr's are a prime example (altho, like many others, they have a striker instead of a hammer).

In terms of a "real world" example with small .380s, I had an older lady student a couple of weeks ago who had the Sig 238 (single action). She had a the terrible, terible habit of putting her finger inside the trigger guard too soon. Which, with the light trigger and little short barrel, was very disturbing. I had to reprimand her multiple times. The single action triggers on those little guns (including the new Kimber Solo) can be great for enhancing accuracy. But they can also make certain people believe that certain other people safety-wise would be far better served by the loooooong DAO trigger pulls on guns like Ruger's LCP or LCR.

[cbunt1]

"Better" is a relative term. I can make a good case for either one :) As with everything, its a matter of how you train, and what your individual mind is comfortable with.

And the question of "DA" "SA" "DAO" "DA/SA" and "Safe Action" from a mechanical perspective can get to be quite the question among gunsmiths and armorers--almost as bad as religion and politics (example, the ATF considers the Glock a "Safe DA" pistol, and the M&P is considered a Double Action striker fired pistol...The Springfield XD is considered an "SA" pistol, even though the mechanics of the sears on both guns are similar enough that I'm surprised there's never been any lawsuits.)...what I'm getting at is that you shouldn't get too concerned over the minutiae of the styles, and handle them--the differences become much more obvious with them in your hands.

But I digress. This is one of those situations that the best advice I can offer is to shoot everything you can get your hands on, and go with the one that you fall in love with. You can train around any discrepancies and become proficient with whatever trigger type you prefer and have on hand--and in the process, you might just determine that one or the other is better FOR YOU...which is what really matters anyway.

As always, I'm making a short story long :)

[RoyGBiv]

"Better" is a relative term. I can make a good case for either one :) As with everything, its a matter of how you train, and what your individual mind is comfortable with.

.......shoot everything you can get your hands on, and go with the one that you fall in love with. You can train around any discrepancies and become proficient with whatever trigger type you prefer and have on hand--and in the process, you might just determine that one or the other is better FOR YOU...which is what really matters anyway.

Think about how you plan to carry, what equipment you plan to use, how comfortable/safe you feel about light trigger pulls vs. hard, etc.

Example: I usually carry AIWB. The muzzle is pointed at my femoral artery or my privates all day long. I'm not going to carry a striker fired light trigger gun in this position... Having an external hammer allows me to feel the hammer as I reholster. It's called "riding the hammer". Carrying a DA/SA with decocker allows me to shoot, then decock (return to DA trigger pull) before reholstering. The down side is needing to practice shooting two very different trigger pulls on the same gun. First shot is DA, follow up shots are SA unless I decock.....

So ... Think about how YOU plan to carry. Then look at guns that YOU feel would fit your style.

[Rex B]

Short answer:

SA means you have to cock the hammer yourself, usually with your thumb, before it will fire.

DA means you just have to pull the trigger and it will fire.

[Salty1]

"SA means you have to cock the hammer yourself, usually with your thumb, before it will fire."

I guess this may be true with SAO revolvers but not every gun, 1911's do not fall into this catagory so that blanket statement is inaccurate.

I typically reccomend a DAO handgun to people as their first and to spend lots of time dry firing it and learning the trigger, if you can master a DAO hangun with live ammo you will be able to shoot anything accuratly. The plus with the DAO is your forced to learn the trigger and keep your sights aligned in order for it to hit the target and be accurate with the shot. Many people have DA/SA handguns and their first shot is terrible and they blame it on the trigger rather than them not practicing that trigger pull.... shooting is all about practice and knowing your handgun.....

[Rex B]

"SA means you have to cock the hammer yourself, usually with your thumb, before it will fire."

I guess this may be true with SAO revolvers but not every gun, 1911's do not fall into this catagory so that blanket statement is inaccurate.

You have a true 1911 that you do not have to cock the hammer first? That could be worth thousands of dollars!

I have quite a few 1911s. The only one that I don't have to cock the hammer on is a Para LDA.
But then that's not a true 1911

[RPB]

Fan the Tanaka Colt SAA airsoft revolver
(Western movie/Action shooting)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5120848041" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you get a SA old Navy Colt type Cowboy Revolver and want to do that fast like a gunfighter, you can take a strip of leather/cloth and just tie the trigger back to the frame so it's always "pulled" and all you gotta do is draw and fan.

Downside is when you go through tree branches and limb/branch trips the hammer while it's holstered on your leg ... ever notice the civil war type flap holsters that cover everything?

Don't "go off half cocked" and be trying this at home ...

[Rex B]

Back on point: The OP is new to firearms, and wanted a simple explanation. I gave one.

All this arcane discussion about striker-fired vs hammer fired etc is all well and good, but I doubt that helps her with her question.

[RPB]

Back on point: The OP is new to firearms, and wanted a simple explanation. I gave one.

All this arcane discussion about striker-fired vs hammer fired etc is all well and good, but I doubt that helps her with her question.

Agreed, that's why I advised

Seriously, rather than worry about the mechanics/ inertia firing pin whatever, try several and concern yourself with if you like the trigger and recoil and can hit the 10-ring ... or the barn ...or not
...
Again. don't worry about DA/SA engineering/design etc so much right now, try guns, get what works for you.
Study features, study procedures how to clear jams etc tap/rack/bang, study safety ... later you can learn engineering

[stroo]

Pros and Cons

SA generally have easier trigger pulls and therefore are generally easier to shoot accurately. The cons are that SA need to be cocked first and generally if carried cocked, need a thumb or other similar safety. Some believe that safety takes significant time to operate, some don't.

DA generally do not have a thumb or similar safety. They instead rely on the long, hard trigger pull to cock the gun and incidentally to prevent unintentionally pulling the trigger. Some believe this makes them faster to shoot, i.e. point and shoot. Some don't. The con is that the long, hard trigger pull make it more difficult to shoot the gun accurately.

[Salty1]

"SA means you have to cock the hammer yourself, usually with your thumb, before it will fire."

I guess this may be true with SAO revolvers but not every gun, 1911's do not fall into this catagory so that blanket statement is inaccurate.

"You have a true 1911 that you do not have to cock the hammer first? That could be worth thousands of dollars!"

I have 1911's and competed with them for 5 years in my younger days, I doubt I have ever used my thumb to pull the hammer back, the routine is insert mag, release slide and engage safety, hammer is back. At what point would you need to pull the hammer back unless you manually lowered it? I stand by my statement that your previous comment is inaccurate..... at what point do you use your thumb to cock the hammer?

[Ldy AlliDu]

Please keep in mind that I've only shot one gun in my life and that is the one I bought myself less than a month ago. I have a S&W 9mm and it is DA. I really love shooting it. Of course I don't have too much to compare it to. I've shot a .22, .380, mine and that is it. I've read a little about SA and DA but don't know enough of why one or the other is better. Can someone please enlighten me?

I am south of you but you are welcome to come down and shoot, anytime, I have one gun that will give you an idea, and if you want to come to the Arms Room, they have guns to rent.

[G.A. Heath]

With a Single Action Semi-Auto they will cock the hammer via the slides reciprocation. With a Single Action Revolver, Derringer, break action, or other non-semi-auto you usually have to cock the hammer your self.

The advantages of a single action, DAO, and most striker fired, firearms is that you have a consistant triggerpull. When you move into SA/DA firearms, like many Sigs, that are decocked for carry you get a heavy DA first pull and a light SA second pull which can cause problems for inexperienced shooters.