CHL-16 clarification for 30.06 sign

[Keith B]

The building at 222 W. Harris is owned by the county. Not a legal posting, unless as stated, there is a court or other off-limits office in the building. Might be a good one to ask them about.

Noted. One of the long-time deputies is a fried of mine, and running for elections this year. I let him post a sign in my yard and helped him a little with the campaigning. Looking into this may be a way he could repay me!

[A-R]

I would like for someone to explain to me what (e) in red below means. It is a bit confusing to me. Thanks

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

In REALLY rough terms, it prohibits govt entities (be it city, county or state...unfortunately doesn't apply to federal) from posting 30.06 signs, meaning its legal for us to carry on public property. The exceptions it mentions refer to the prohibitions against carrying in courthouses, etc.

Edit: So for example, the city of Dallas couldn't post a 30.06 sign in a library if the library was the only occupier of the building.

Just to clarify a bit, it's not illegal for a PC 30.06 sign to be posted on government owned/leased property, meaning the government entity is not PROHIBITED (far as I know) from posting such signs, the signs just have no legal effect on someone who is legally carrying under valid CHL (with previously noted exceptions of official government meetings, courtrooms, etc.)

Nitpicky, I realize, but it's always important to remember the EXACT wording/meaning of these laws (best as we can decipher them)

[74novaman]

I would like for someone to explain to me what (e) in red below means. It is a bit confusing to me. Thanks

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

In REALLY rough terms, it prohibits govt entities (be it city, county or state...unfortunately doesn't apply to federal) from posting 30.06 signs, meaning its legal for us to carry on public property. The exceptions it mentions refer to the prohibitions against carrying in courthouses, etc.

Edit: So for example, the city of Dallas couldn't post a 30.06 sign in a library if the library was the only occupier of the building.

Just to clarify a bit, it's not illegal for a PC 30.06 sign to be posted on government owned/leased property, meaning the government entity is not PROHIBITED (far as I know) from posting such signs, the signs just have no legal effect on someone who is legally carrying under valid CHL (with previously noted exceptions of official government meetings, courtrooms, etc.)

Nitpicky, I realize, but it's always important to remember the EXACT wording/meaning of these laws (best as we can decipher them)

I had to reread my post, but get what you're saying regarding "prohibited" implying illegal.

What I should have said was "a 30.06 posted on a govt building not otherwise prohibited by 46.03 or 46.035 is not enforceable".

This is why I could never be a lawyer. And don't apologize for being nitpicky. You're right...the law is nitpicky.

[Ameer]

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
The 30.06 law doesn't apply

that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity
on government property

and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
except for places off limits in 46.03 or 46.035.

[PvilleStang]

Also, any government functions are off limits, i.e. City Council, Planning and Zoning, school board meetings, EDB, etc.

Only if posted with a 30.06.

Considering government functions tend to take place in State / City / County owned buildings, 30.06 is invalid anyways.

Legally I've been informed you CANNOT carry to things like City Council meetings, EDB, Court Hearings, P&Z, School Board meetings, etc. Check me on it...

[Keith B]

Also, any government functions are off limits, i.e. City Council, Planning and Zoning, school board meetings, EDB, etc.

Only if posted with a 30.06.

Considering government functions tend to take place in State / City / County owned buildings, 30.06 is invalid anyways.

Legally I've been informed you CANNOT carry to things like City Council meetings, EDB, Court Hearings, P&Z, School Board meetings, etc. Check me on it...

Informed legally by who?

Here is the statute. Subsection (c) is overridden in (i) below, just like hospitals, churches, and amusement parks and says they must post a 30.06 sign.

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e)
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical
reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas
Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 229, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, § 10.04, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, § 26, 27, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, § 14.833, eff. Sept. 1,
2001; Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 976, § 3, eff. Sept. 1, 2005.

[PvilleStang]

Informed legally by who?

Here is the statute. Subsection (c) is overridden in (i) below, just like hospitals, churches, and amusement parks and says they must post a 30.06 sign.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Chief of Police for the city I used to work for informed me it was illegal to carry within the meetings.

Here's my thing, you cannot legally notify a CHL holder of 30.06 since it is a null factor in government buildings, correct? Want to cover my bases before I carry into something of the sort. Don't want to be a test case.

[Keith B]

Chief of Police for the city I used to work for informed me it was illegal to carry within the meetings.

Here's my thing, you cannot legally notify a CHL holder of 30.06 since it is a null factor in government buildings, correct? Want to be covered before I carry into something of the sort. Don't want to be a test case.

Incorrect. This is the only exception of when a 30.06 is valid on government property is when it is posted at a meeting of a governmental entity. It used to be that way, but when the change was made to add section (i), then they were required to post a 30.06. Could be he is thinking of the old rules and doesn't know about the addition of (i).

Be aware also that if the location is already statutorily off limits then you can't carry (like in a court or the secured area of a police station.)

The other issue is I am not sure if they had a 30.06 sign posted all the time if it would be valid just because they decide to hold a meeting there. And example would be City Hall with a permanent 30.06. Would it suddenly become valid when they had a City Council meeting? I think that they would have to post the 30.06 at the entrance of the meeting and only when the meeting was being held, but don't think there is any case law to back up my theory.

[sugar land dave]

If the chief of police informed you that firearms would not be permitted into the government meeting, then you have verbally been given 30.06 notice.

[Keith B]

If the chief of police informed you that firearms would not be permitted into the government meeting, then you have verbally been given 30.06 notice.

That's is a good point. The only caveat is the Chief must have the authority over that meeting to not allow concealed carry. More than likely he would have, but not sure that would blanket cover everything.

[PvilleStang]

The City Council meeting room doubles as our court, EDB / P&Z / public hearing chambers, too. So my other question would be defining a court room. If you hold court once a month in a conference room, is it now permanently deemed a court room and off limits for carry?

[Keith B]

The City Council meeting room doubles as our court, EDB / P&Z / public hearing chambers, too. So my other question would be defining a court room. If you hold court once a month in a conference room, is it now permanently deemed a court room and off limits for carry?

This is just my personal take, but I think it depends on what the rooms is designated as. if it is called 'Court Room', but has other meetings in it, then it is a court. If it is called 'The City Council Meeting Room', then it would not be unless they were actually holding Court in the room.

Multi-use areas are at best a really gray subject if they can sometimes be statutorily off-limits.

[sugar land dave]

If the chief of police informed you that firearms would not be permitted into the government meeting, then you have verbally been given 30.06 notice.

That's is a good point. The only caveat is the Chief must have the authority over that meeting to not allow concealed carry. More than likely he would have, but not sure that would blanket cover everything.

To wit:

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or

(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

For my sake, I would assume that the police chief had apparent authority.

[Keith B]

For my sake, I would assume that the police chief had apparent authority.

Unless the Chief he was talking about was in a different city.

[sugar land dave]

Touche!