Man pistol whips Walmart assailants

[speedsix]

...we're talking about the word "reasonable"...your jury's gonna hear a LOT about reasonable...what's important is that you be able to convince a prosecutor, grand jury, and jury, if need be, that, based on all the facts in your particular incident...your response was immediately necessary and reasonable...NORMALLY, you don't shoot someone who hits you one time...NORMALLY, you don't pistol-whip them, either...you have the responsibility of showing that there was an unprovoked attack that necessitated your use of deadly force...and getting REASONABLE people to buy your story...not an easy job...not impossible, but not easy...it wouldn't be EASY to show why you even displayed deadly force over someone knocking you down in a public place...that's the whole point...

[jocat54]

You can call me all the names you want but if you try to harm me or my family, I will try my best to stop you, If that takes shooting you so be it.

Never called you a name.

I am just trying note that making a blanket statement that anyone who punches you will get shot, period, is a good way to get convicted of manslaughter.

You have now clarified your statement that you will stop them, AND if it takes shooting you, then you will do it. That is now a better viewpoint. And, since you have now stated you are too old to take a single punch, that weighs into the equation. Is your attacker twice your size and half your age? Are there multiple attackers? Is he Mike Tyson? Or is it a little 70 year old mousy women that stands 5 foot tall and is mad because you took the last shopping cart at Walmart and decides to hit you. These are all part of what you must quickly assess before making the decision that anyone punching you will get them shot. Disparity of force HAS to be put into the factors before you make the decision to shoot.

Sorry, I didn't mean you . I was referring to a provoker (attacker) in a situation.

[03Lightningrocks]

There is a fine line between self defense and revenge. A person socks you and walks off, do you blast him in the back, "Joe Horn" style? I am not sure why anyone would just walk up and hit me and walk off, but I guess it could happen. Am I allowed to hit him back if he is leaving or would that be considered revenge?

I am thinking if someone socks you or me, they are probably going to continue the attack with some follow up blows. In this case, I think it would be self defense to stop them with your weapon, especially if they had a size/age advantage.

[pbwalker]

You have now clarified your statement that you will stop them, AND if it takes shooting you, then you will do it. That is now a better viewpoint. And, since you have now stated you are too old to take a single punch, that weighs into the equation. Is your attacker twice your size and half your age? Are there multiple attackers? Is he Mike Tyson? Or is it a little 70 year old mousy women that stands 5 foot tall and is mad because you took the last shopping cart at Walmart and decides to hit you. These are all part of what you must quickly assess before making the decision that anyone punching you will get them shot. Disparity of force HAS to be put into the factors before you make the decision to shoot.

[Heartland Patriot]

gents, a SINGLE punch to the body can incapcitate period, yea it has to be done right but a single punch can put you on the floor and you won't be able to do anything other than try to gasp for air, and if your really unlucky you won't be able to get that air. so yea IMHO (with my off center moral compass) the first hit gets lead injection.

Friend, you're currently amongst a sympathetic audience, but I'd vote to convict.

I wouldn't say that automatically...someone who willingly INITIATES FORCE (the one throwing the punch in this case) against another should expect a response; the level of response would be dictated by the circumstances and attendant factors. While I'm not saying in the very least that the only correct response is to pull the trigger, I don't think that the one punch thing is enough to say you'd vote to convict. There are far too many variables in a situation to just make that blanket statement. As many have pointed out, age and size at minimum must be taken into account, as well as the number of assailants. One punch up side of the head may be to knock a person down for a kick-fest by a crew of goblins. I do know someone who suffered TBI (from a bike accident caused by someone in an SUV who ran a stop sign and hit my co-worker on the bike). He was a sharp witted guy before the injury; he was someone else entirely afterwards. So, depending on the factors, punches can be deadly and may warrant a deadly response. The best thing for folks to do is what my parents taught me as a kid: keep your hands to yourself.

[Heartland Patriot]

There is a fine line between self defense and revenge. A person socks you and walks off, do you blast him in the back, "Joe Horn" style? I am not sure why anyone would just walk up and hit me and walk off, but I guess it could happen. Am I allowed to hit him back if he is leaving or would that be considered revenge?

I am thinking if someone socks you or me, they are probably going to continue the attack with some follow up blows. In this case, I think it would be self defense to stop them with your weapon, especially if they had a size/age advantage.

In England for some years (and may still be this way), there was a trend for "youths" to engage in something called "happy slapping". It involved some of these miscreants getting tanked up on alcohol, going out onto a busy sidewalk, and slapping (punching) some random stranger (who looked like an easy target) in the side of the head, usually with as much force as could be mustered by the assailant. Some of my former troops, who overnighted in England while they were transiting to the desert for a deployment, witnessed and taped one of these incidents some years ago. It was completely unprovoked; it happened because the UK has laws that work against the person who is attacked by making their legal ability to defend themselves EXTREMELY narrow. While none of us want our country to become the "Wild West" that the propagandist media is always crying about, neither should we want to see our nation become like the UK, where legal self-defense is a mere dream.

[03Lightningrocks]

There is a fine line between self defense and revenge. A person socks you and walks off, do you blast him in the back, "Joe Horn" style? I am not sure why anyone would just walk up and hit me and walk off, but I guess it could happen. Am I allowed to hit him back if he is leaving or would that be considered revenge?

I am thinking if someone socks you or me, they are probably going to continue the attack with some follow up blows. In this case, I think it would be self defense to stop them with your weapon, especially if they had a size/age advantage.

In England for some years (and may still be this way), there was a trend for "youths" to engage in something called "happy slapping". It involved some of these miscreants getting tanked up on alcohol, going out onto a busy sidewalk, and slapping (punching) some random stranger (who looked like an easy target) in the side of the head, usually with as much force as could be mustered by the assailant. Some of my former troops, who overnighted in England while they were transiting to the desert for a deployment, witnessed and taped one of these incidents some years ago. It was completely unprovoked; it happened because the UK has laws that work against the person who is attacked by making their legal ability to defend themselves EXTREMELY narrow. While none of us want our country to become the "Wild West" that the propagandist media is always crying about, neither should we want to see our nation become like the UK, where legal self-defense is a mere dream.

OK... I have heard of that and I had forgotten. So if I pull my deadly weapon and shoot the little terds as they run off laughing, I am pretty sure I would be in trouble.

[Heartland Patriot]

There is a fine line between self defense and revenge. A person socks you and walks off, do you blast him in the back, "Joe Horn" style? I am not sure why anyone would just walk up and hit me and walk off, but I guess it could happen. Am I allowed to hit him back if he is leaving or would that be considered revenge?

I am thinking if someone socks you or me, they are probably going to continue the attack with some follow up blows. In this case, I think it would be self defense to stop them with your weapon, especially if they had a size/age advantage.

In England for some years (and may still be this way), there was a trend for "youths" to engage in something called "happy slapping". It involved some of these miscreants getting tanked up on alcohol, going out onto a busy sidewalk, and slapping (punching) some random stranger (who looked like an easy target) in the side of the head, usually with as much force as could be mustered by the assailant. Some of my former troops, who overnighted in England while they were transiting to the desert for a deployment, witnessed and taped one of these incidents some years ago. It was completely unprovoked; it happened because the UK has laws that work against the person who is attacked by making their legal ability to defend themselves EXTREMELY narrow. While none of us want our country to become the "Wild West" that the propagandist media is always crying about, neither should we want to see our nation become like the UK, where legal self-defense is a mere dream.

OK... I have heard of that and I had forgotten. So if I pull my deadly weapon and shoot the little terds as they run off laughing, I am pretty sure I would be in trouble.

Well, in the UK you wouldn't have a deadly weapon...but I brought up the story because I was pointing out that sometimes folks do get punched for no good reason. I knew another guy in California that got jumped by TWO guys outside a bar because they thought he was somebody else; he had no clue who they were (LEOs caught the two guys outside the same bar a couple of nights later jumping the "right" guy)...they broke my co-worker's jaw and it had to be wired shut for months; only one or two punches were thrown. They probably would have messed him up more, but some other folks came out of the bar for a smoke at just the right time to help my co-worker. Deadly force IS serious business, indeed but the fault should be on those who initiated the violence. Somehow its gotten okay to start trouble, but not okay to end it...

[jocat54]

You can call me all the names you want but if you try to harm me or my family, I will try my best to stop you, If that takes shooting you so be it.

Never called you a name.

I am just trying note that making a blanket statement that anyone who punches you will get shot, period, is a good way to get convicted of manslaughter.

You have now clarified your statement that you will stop them, AND if it takes shooting you, then you will do it. That is now a better viewpoint. And, since you have now stated you are too old to take a single punch, that weighs into the equation. Is your attacker twice your size and half your age? Are there multiple attackers? Is he Mike Tyson? Or is it a little 70 year old mousy women that stands 5 foot tall and is mad because you took the last shopping cart at Walmart and decides to hit you. These are all part of what you must quickly assess before making the decision that anyone punching you will get them shot. Disparity of force HAS to be put into the factors before you make the decision to shoot.

I don't really think that age or size really matters (at least to me).
If someone punches someone else, that makes them an aggressor, don't really care if you are big or old or large or small you are the aggressor and should expect something in return. ???? Yes there is always circumstances--so one must make that decision at the time.

All my answers were taken from the context of the OP,not some little old lady ect.

Just FYI, I am still a fairly large man, 6'2" 190lbs and can still do a lot of what I did when I was younger. (my 65 year old body and my 20 year old mind don't get along very well )

[KingofChaos]

gents, a SINGLE punch to the body can incapcitate period, yea it has to be done right but a single punch can put you on the floor and you won't be able to do anything other than try to gasp for air, and if your really unlucky you won't be able to get that air. so yea IMHO (with my off center moral compass) the first hit gets lead injection.

Friend, you're currently amongst a sympathetic audience, but I'd vote to convict.

I wouldn't say that automatically...someone who willingly INITIATES FORCE (the one throwing the punch in this case) against another should expect a response; the level of response would be dictated by the circumstances and attendant factors. While I'm not saying in the very least that the only correct response is to pull the trigger, I don't think that the one punch thing is enough to say you'd vote to convict. There are far too many variables in a situation to just make that blanket statement. As many have pointed out, age and size at minimum must be taken into account, as well as the number of assailants. One punch up side of the head may be to knock a person down for a kick-fest by a crew of goblins. I do know someone who suffered TBI (from a bike accident caused by someone in an SUV who ran a stop sign and hit my co-worker on the bike). He was a sharp witted guy before the injury; he was someone else entirely afterwards. So, depending on the factors, punches can be deadly and may warrant a deadly response. The best thing for folks to do is what my parents taught me as a kid: keep your hands to yourself.

I say I would convict, because I am taking his statement exactly for what it is. Someone hits him once and only once. An example would be that he has words with another man, who socks him in the mouth once for not liking what he says, call him some name, and promptly stops his attack. Or perhaps you're walking around in your favourite store, and collide with some teenage punk who isn't walking where he's going. When you turn and say something to you, he hits you because he figures you're just some mouthy old timer, and continues along his way in the store feeling like the baddest man on earth. I don't think the appropriate reaction after a course of events like that is to pull the trigger. I admittedly may be able to take a punch better than some of the older members, but I still don't think you should potentially end someone's life for being an aggressive jerk. In fact, I'd probably go with a swift beating myself.

Food for thought, what if he slaps you instead of punching you? The last fist-fight I got into was because another man decided to slap me across the face.

[speedsix]

...part of the good to be found in carrying concealed is that, knowing if other, more mild responses don't work or wouldn't be appropriate, we do have deadly force...this lets us have a more confident mind and lets us find ways to de-escalate or respond more moderately...at least that's the way my 62-year-old mind takes care of my 62-year-old body...I may not have gotten better with age, but I sure have mellowed...

[KingofChaos]

...part of the good to be found in carrying concealed is that, knowing if other, more mild responses don't work or wouldn't be appropriate, we do have deadly force...this lets us have a more confident mind and lets us find ways to de-escalate or respond more moderately...at least that's the way my 62-year-old mind takes care of my 62-year-old body...I may not have gotten better with age, but I sure have mellowed...

That's mostly what I was getting at. I think that there are other options other than deadly force if you're simply punched once. Maybe you take the punch and call the police. Maybe you get back up and sock him back. Maybe you're a 70 year old man, and the guy is looming over you menacingly and you shoot him. I just don't think shoot should be the automatic response.

[Oldgringo]

Would you kids quit the bickerin'? Don't make me come in there!

[03Lightningrocks]

Maybe you fellers should simply apologize for what you did to deserve a sock in the nose. Then the guy won't have to sock you a second time.

[speedsix]

Would you kids quit the bickerin'? Don't make me come in there!

...Mama was good for 5 threatens before her foot hit that bottom step...Dad spoke ONCE...long time ago...