.380 question

[S&Wgrl]

I took my CHL class this weekend. It was so good! Shout out to Karen Rabe in Texas City. She is a great instructor. I have a S&W 9mm and it is too large for me to conceal on my body. I do not want to purse carry. I shot a friends .380 and I did not like it! That sucker spit out the casings like a projectile. She was hit in the head once and it drew blood. Do all .380's do that? I've seen a lot of subcompacts that are .380's. I really like that size for CC. I also like the Springfield XD9. I guess I'm also looking for suggestions. I shot a 22 over the weekend and did not like that at all. I will use my CC for range time as well as my S&W.
I will be reading through the forum for suggestions too. I mainly wanted to know if all .380's operate that way. Also, any likes and dislikes on the Springfield XD9 would be appreciated.

[wgoforth]

I took my CHL class this weekend. It was so good! Shout out to Karen Rabe in Texas City. She is a great instructor. I have a S&W 9mm and it is too large for me to conceal on my body. I do not want to purse carry. I shot a friends .380 and I did not like it! That sucker spit out the casings like a projectile. She was hit in the head once and it drew blood. Do all .380's do that? I've seen a lot of subcompacts that are .380's. I really like that size for CC. I also like the Springfield XD9. I guess I'm also looking for suggestions. I shot a 22 over the weekend and did not like that at all. I will use my CC for range time as well as my S&W.
I will be reading through the forum for suggestions too. I mainly wanted to know if all .380's operate that way. Also, any likes and dislikes on the Springfield XD9 would be appreciated.

No, they don't. I have had a Kel Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP, Taurus TCP and a S&W Bodyguard and none of those did it. My Sig P238 was doing that, so sent it back for extractor adjustment. Now instead of straight back in face, it ocassionally pops it straight in the air, then back on top my head. Only does it with cheaper ammo. Less powder not cycling at 100%. Right now, wife and I both carry aSig P238 and is my favorite of all .380's due to accuracy and actually fun to shoot, compared to the unfomfortableness of the polymer ones recoil.

[RPB]

Springfield XD9

too large for me to conceal on my body.

Since you already have a S&W 9mm, I'd hate to see you go to .380 just based on size/weight/concealablity
Suggestion:
Looked at any thin/single Stack compact/subcompact 9mms?
a Few Options
Kahr PM9 http://www.google.com/search?q=kahr+pm9 ... 24&bih=636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Walther PPS
KelTec PF9 (I have one, light weight enough to wear with pajama bottoms elastic)
BERSA Ultra Compact 9
Taurus Millenium Pro 111BP
Taurus PT709 Slim/PT890 or whatever it is now (I have a 709 Stainless, it's nice, but I'd prefer a PM9)
---------------------
Diamondback DB9 will be a good one someday, ammo picky now ... new on the market, I'm waiting to get one so I can't say get one yet in good conscience

[Keith B]

As RPB stated, I would suggest the single stack 9mm also. I have a Kahr PM9 that I dearly love. It is easily manageable on recoil and functions great. If the PM9 is a little out of your price range, you can not get a very similar model CM9 that has the same frame and trigger, just not as dressed out in the slide and a little different barrel. The differences for CHL are negligible IMO and had the CM9 been available when I bought mine, I would have opted for it instead for self defense purposes.

[RPB]

I forgot the new Ruger LC9

Ruger LC9 has a mag safety to prevent getting shot with an "unloaded gun"
(A disadvantage if one is chambered and reloading in a firefight and you can't use that round if you dropped the mag and you have to wait until you can pick it up to insert it and fire)
Ruger LC9 vs Kahr CM9
[youtube][/youtube]

Kahr PM9 VS Kel Tec PF9,
[youtube][/youtube]

[A-R]

+1 on thin concealable 9mm (I love my Walther PPS)

When analyzing .380s really helps to separate them a bit as they typically come in two varieties:

(1) Tiny, über compact pocket guns with polymer frames and short recoil operation
Examples: Ruger LCP, Kel Tec P3AT, Taurus TCP, Kahr P380, S&W Bodyguard.380 (not to be confused with either modern not classic "Bodyguard" .38 special revolvers)

These guns are TINY. Weigh about 10 oz - easy to conceal, can be difficult to shoot (not much grip to hold, small sight radius) but the short recoil action can be a bit more forgiving than straight blowback (see below)

(2) larger steel or aluminum framed guns with blowback operation
Examples: Walther PPK, Bersa Thunder, Sig Sauer P230/232, Browning BDA, Beretta 84/85

These older designs are very accurate for their size because of fixed barrel blowback operation - but side effect can be some harsh recoil directly into palm of hand (as opposed to muzzle flip experienced with larger calibers like .40 S&W using short recoil action). Theyre also larger and heavier overall than above group. Classic design, most are well built and can be expensive. In many ways this class of gun is being replaced by the thin 9mm guns that are neary same size/weight, with more stopping power from 9mm cartridge, and same or even less felt recoil because of short recoil operation.

(3) Newer classification of larger short recoil operated .380s
Examples: Walther PK380, maybe a Taurus
Combines relative size of blowback guns with less jarring short recoil operation for a very soft-shooting gun

[wgoforth]

+1 on thin concealable 9mm (I love my Walther PPS)

When analyzing .380s really helps to separate them a bit as they typically come in two varieties:

(1) Tiny, über compact pocket guns with polymer frames and short recoil operation
Examples: Ruger LCP, Kel Tec P3AT, Taurus TCP, Kahr P380, S&W Bodyguard.380 (not to be confused with either modern not classic "Bodyguard" .38 special revolvers)

These guns are TINY. Weigh about 10 oz - easy to conceal, can be difficult to shoot (not much grip to hold, small sight radius) but the short recoil action can be a bit more forgiving than straight blowback (see below)

(2) larger steel or aluminum framed guns with blowback operation
Examples: Walther PPK, Bersa Thunder, Sig Sauer P230/232, Browning BDA, Beretta 84/85

These older designs are very accurate for their size because of fixed barrel blowback operation - but side effect can be some harsh recoil directly into palm of hand (as opposed to muzzle flip experienced with larger calibers like .40 S&W using short recoil action). Theyre also larger and heavier overall than above group. Classic design, most are well built and can be expensive. In many ways this class of gun is being replaced by the thin 9mm guns that are neary same size/weight, with more stopping power from 9mm cartridge, and same or even less felt recoil because of short recoil operation.

(3) Newer classification of larger short recoil operated .380s
Examples: Walther PK380, maybe a Taurus
Combines relative size of blowback guns with less jarring short recoil operation for a very soft-shooting gun

I am a .380 fan and I concur with all the above. Bersa is a nice gun, but the recoil is stouter than my Sig P238 because of that blowback design. Due to the 238 being all metal, the perceived recoil is minimal. And, with the extended mag, I can get all 4 of my fingers around the grip with a 7+1 (8) round capacity. The slide is unusually easy to rack for such a small gun, which is often a problem for the ladies. I think half of us who have the P238 have it because our wives got them due to ease of racking....then the husbands tried them and liked them. I encourage spouses to have matching guns anyway.

[S&Wgrl]

Y'all are awesome! I can't wait to research the suggestions already posted. I like the idea of staying in the 9mm family too. Thanks so much!

[SATX-Scrub]

I love my single stack 9mm P290. Once I got used to the DA long pull it was a breeze. Its dead on accurate (laser if you want it) and it tucks nicely in my Crossbreed. I like the hammer fire too. Just a hair bigger than the P238 but you get the more affordable ammo choice. The extra 4 oz help with any recoil. Spent casings land on the far right of center too!

It fits in my small hands too!

[RPB]

Kahr PM9 versus Kahr CM9 article
(But, don't confuse a CM9 with a CW9, which is larger and imho, not as good ... I had a CW40 and almost swore to never buy another Kahr ... I'm not a CW fan ... IMHO the W stands for worthless )
CM9 differs from the PM9 in 6 different ways. (but see the link in my above post re: shopping PM9)
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-kahr-cm-9/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RPB]

I love my single stack 9mm P290. Once I got used to the DA long pull it was a breeze. Its dead on accurate (laser if you want it) and it tucks nicely in my Crossbreed. I like the hammer fire too. Just a hair bigger than the P238 but you get the more affordable ammo choice. The extra 4 oz help with any recoil. Spent casings land on the far right of center too!

It fits in my small hands too!

That's another one I forgot
Sig Sauer P290 w/ laser

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CDkQ8wIwAg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Annoyed Man]

Kahr PM9 versus Kahr CM9 article
(But, don't confuse a CM9 with a CW9, which is larger and imho, not as good ... I had a CW40 and almost swore to never buy another Kahr ... I'm not a CW fan ... IMHO the W stands for worthless )
CM9 differs from the PM9 in 6 different ways. (but see the link in my above post re: shopping PM9)
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-kahr-cm-9/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Beg to disagree. My wife's CW9 has been problem free, easy to shoot, and functions reliably......and it carries very nicely in either holster or purse. I am led to understand that some of the older Kahrs, particularly in .40 cal, were prone to breakage. That appears not to be the case nowadays. I own a PM9 and a CW45, and they're both good guns.

[RPB]

Kahr PM9 versus Kahr CM9 article
(But, don't confuse a CM9 with a CW9, which is larger and imho, not as good ... I had a CW40 and almost swore to never buy another Kahr ... I'm not a CW fan ... IMHO the W stands for worthless )
CM9 differs from the PM9 in 6 different ways. (but see the link in my above post re: shopping PM9)
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-kahr-cm-9/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Beg to disagree. My wife's CW9 has been problem free, easy to shoot, and functions reliably......and it carries very nicely in either holster or purse. I am led to understand that some of the older Kahrs, particularly in .40 cal, were prone to breakage. That appears not to be the case nowadays. I own a PM9 and a CW45, and they're both good guns.

yup mine was one of the old .40s it was a lemon, I really haven't heard anything but good reports on newer/all other models just my "feelings" got bent on a bad experience, but they've made up for it now I s'pose

Prior statement withdrawn ... jury will please disregard ...

the Pm and CM are smaller than the CW though.

[The Annoyed Man]

Let us not forget the Kimber Solo (if money is no object): http://www.kimberamerica.com/solo

[youtube][/youtube]

[wgoforth]

I love my single stack 9mm P290. Once I got used to the DA long pull it was a breeze. Its dead on accurate (laser if you want it) and it tucks nicely in my Crossbreed. I like the hammer fire too. Just a hair bigger than the P238 but you get the more affordable ammo choice. The extra 4 oz help with any recoil. Spent casings land on the far right of center too!

It fits in my small hands too!

I have seen several folks talking about more affordable ammo when comparing 9mm to .380.... but be sure and compare current prices rather than a couple of years ago when there was the shortage of .380's. Right now I am paying the same for 9mm and .380. Otherwise the 9mm is superior to a .380 in many ways, agreed. But price no longer seems to be an issue. I pay $13.95 for PMC, and Blazer. $14.95 for Independence and Federal Eagle in .380.