Marine shot and killed by deputy

[gigag04]

without alot of info? I would ask why he didn't immobilize the vehicle first ? it was against the fence correct? take out a tire or two.

Never ceases to amaze me the numbers of people that I encounter who could do a cop's job better without ever spending a day on the street.

I am willing to bet as time goes on, we will get much more info and form better opinions about the actions of both parties.

[C-dub]

Some have expressed hope that the video or other accounts will result in the officer being in the wrong. I do have my doubts because of the limited information available, but I would rather find out that the officer acted appropriately and did indeed save those girls' lives. That, to me, would be a win-win. Otherwise, the alternative is that the officer has ruined the lives of two family's.

[Oldgringo]

without alot of info? I would ask why he didn't immobilize the vehicle first ? it was against the fence correct? take out a tire or two.

Never ceases to amaze me the numbers of people that I encounter who could do a cop's job better without ever spending a day on the street.

I am willing to bet as time goes on, we will get much more info and form better opinions about the actions of both parties.

I don't know that we'll have better opinions but we should have more info. There are oodles of things about this news clipping that just don't gel, powerboatr's question is just one of 'em. Shooting the unarmed driver with the kids in the car doesn't sound like recommended procedure either. There is a, as yet unknown, catalyst to this whole story and I'm bettin' it wears a skirt.

[baldeagle]

There are great police officers, but this is not one of them. Police should be elected officials who could be ousted from office for bad behavior. This is definitely bad behavior. With the increasing militarization of our police force, events like these are increasingly common. With affirmative action programs, qualifications become increasingly irrelevant as prerequisites for hiring. That's why I have my own dashcam and I urge y'all to do the same for a measly $20-30 on ebay. What would be even better is a dashcam that can post to youtube immediately wirelessly so that the cops cannot delete it. I had a cop try to give me a ticket for running a red light when I did no such thing. It was the end of the month and he was trying to fill his quota. I pointed out my dashcam and politely told him that he might be mistaken. So, he wrote me a "warning" instead. Ugh....

Just be careful out there. The uniform is no guarantee of an upstanding citizen. Just like the rest of the general population, there are good and bad cops. The profession seems to attract a lot of power tripping control freaks who'll KILL you for disobeying an "order". The marine was not armed and did not threaten the police officer. He simply disobeyed an "order" and was killed for it. Ugh....

Bet you anything that this will be ruled another "justified" shooting just like the one in Las Vegas a la Erik Scott !

Wow! You crammed a lot in there! There is no way to determine from the story whether the shooting was justified or not. The Marine's behavior, as described by the officers, was obviously abnormal. The officer must have felt it was abnormal enough that it justified firing. If the shooting is determined to be justified, there's no evidence to suggest that this particular department is covering up anything.

[Oldgringo]

baldeagle wrote:
....The Marine's behavior, as described by the officers, was obviously abnormal. The officer must have felt it was abnormal enough that it justified firing....

Well, shootin' the abnormal people would certainly thin out the herd.

[Dave2]

baldeagle wrote:
....The Marine's behavior, as described by the officers, was obviously abnormal. The officer must have felt it was abnormal enough that it justified firing....

Well, shootin' the abnormal people would certainly thin out the herd.

Heh, somehow I don't think he meant it that way...

[drjoker]

TAM, what assumptions? Everything I stated were facts. Here goes....

Let's see, on the 10th, the deputy said that he shot the marine because "he feared for his life." : http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 441S33.DTL

The guy he shot was a marine who had 3 good conduct medals: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... eputy.html

and he was also taking his daughters for a prayer walk, like he often does at 4:30 am before he starts work at 7:30 am: http://laist.com/2012/02/10/marine_shot ... deputy.php

and he was unarmed: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... -says.html

Now, here's the kicker, on the 11th, the deputy, faced with evidence on the dashcam and the marine's daughters' testimony that conflicts with his story, now CHANGES his story to say that he did not shoot because he was "in fear for his life," but actually shot the man to protect him from hurting his own daughters: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... -says.html

The deputy said that Marine Sargent Manny Loggins "crashed into the fence". That is a boldface LIE. Check out the photo from the news helicopter: http://missionviejo.patch.com/articles/ ... to-9077664

and a closeup photo: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... gious.html

Do you see a big hole in the fence? No. Is the car even touching the fence? Nope. Is there damage to Sargent Loggin's vehicle? no. Probably, he had a parking error and nudged the fence a little. I've done so myself many times. It's kinda hard to judge where the front of the car is sometimes.

Around the corner from my home, 2 years ago, a police officer here in Dallas, pointed his gun at a man so that he could use the pistol light on his gun as a means of illuminating the guy. Well, waddayaknow? The cop accidentally shoots the guy. This happened at a Jack in the Box where I dine every week.

At best, this is a screw up and the cop accidentally shot the marine. If so, he should just be a man and fess up instead of making up stories blaming the victim and then changing his story a day later.

At worst, this cop meant to shoot him and the cop tried to cover it up and realized that the story didn't fit the facts so he changed his story later.

Either way, the fact that he changed his story and LIED about the guy crashing his car just red flags the cop as a guilty perp. If it were the other way around and a civilian shot a cop because the cop was acting erratically, do you think the cops would arrest the civilian? Yes. So, I thought that in a democracy, "public servants" such as cops are supposed to get the same treatment as civilians? I didn't think that there was a caste system in Amerika. That cop should've been thrown in jail pending bail and/or a trial. The way events are unfolding is absolutely disgusting!

[gigag04]

I'm assuming the above was for me and not TAM...if I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

I know the media always gets the story right so I don't dare contest your facts...

Also - not sure which penal code or CCP you read, but there are many mandates that apply to peace officers but not to non peace officers. Are you required to file a report when you find an instance of family violence? Are required to arrest violators of a protective order when probable cause to do so exists? Can you carry in bars and in college classrooms? Sporting events? Is spitting on you at work a third degree felony or class C misdemeanor?

Like or not, there are many distinctions between police officers and non police officers. These exist throughout America. I'm not sure how your statement saying that they are equals under the law applies, but I disagree on this point.

You are entitled to your own media influenced opinion. I'm holding mine until we know more.

[drjoker]

I'm assuming the above was for me and not TAM...if I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

oops, you're right it was meant for you (sorry!). I saw your avatar, Tex A & M, and my brain added it up, and voila! You're TAM.

Anyways,

stay cool and be safe out there....

[sugar land dave]

Military vs LEO, I will definitely have to sit this one out as I deeply respect both sides. My condolences to the families.

[VoiceofReason]

without alot of info? I would ask why he didn't immobilize the vehicle first ? it was against the fence correct? take out a tire or two.

Never ceases to amaze me the numbers of people that I encounter who could do a cop's job better without ever spending a day on the street.

I am willing to bet as time goes on, we will get much more info and form better opinions about the actions of both parties.

I don’t know, something about the way this was handled just doesn’t sit right with me.

The deputy fired through the window with the girls in the car?

I have my doubts we will ever hear any more unless there is a lawsuit.

[gigag04]

without alot of info? I would ask why he didn't immobilize the vehicle first ? it was against the fence correct? take out a tire or two.

Never ceases to amaze me the numbers of people that I encounter who could do a cop's job better without ever spending a day on the street.

I am willing to bet as time goes on, we will get much more info and form better opinions about the actions of both parties.

I don’t know, something about the way this was handled just doesn’t sit right with me.

The deputy fired through the window with the girls in the car?

I have my doubts we will ever hear any more unless there is a lawsuit.

I tend to agree with you - it looks bad, however, after watching the events of a an officer involved shooting this past year in my own area, it was interesting seeing the media's portrayal of both the officer, and the person shot as time went on. Thus, I fight the urge to say anything I don't know to be true, or have grounds to feel strongly on.

[powerboatr]

ouch
but
even when i looked at the photo the vehicle wasnt really going anywhere, maybe but i wasnt there am not 100%, but it does cause one to ask why?
I was merely asking why an officer wouldn't have tried to immobilize the vehicle first ?
if this was Jacksonville florida sheriffs office in the early 90's it would have been normal for them to KILL first then ask questions as this office was completely out of control, I know, I lived there. so was carjackings, drive by shootings, killing of children at school events, drunk driving etc.


everyone can have a bad day, its a flaw for being human

i have respect for the LEO's i know personally. all others its yes sir and no sir and be polite. you just never know when one will trip and leave you in shackles because your a night owl and are up when most everyone else is sleeping. being up at 4 am isnt a crime last time i checked? if it is I am guilty as everthing.
I am retired i sleep when i want and stay up when I want.

i would use the event to maybe glean some good for the rest of us
maybe the marine was suffering from ptsd? is he suffering from a massive hearing loss? or was he just being hard headed and its just happenstance he is a Marine? we will never know
was the policeman nervy? had his shift been filled with close calls? had a similar vehicle earlier been involved in questionable behavior and this guy was now on higher alert? who knows, certainly not us here or me.

i would ask how he saw through the rear window glass? I tried toady at every suburban type vehicle i saw?

from personal experience when I am out at odd hours I am more aware of who and what are around me, not just leos. I understand that being out at odd hrs will put me in the higher probability of being stopped, its called profiling no matter how we cut it
i also know most public parks are closed from sunset to sunrise, so I wouldn't be there unless i was looking for possible issues

to further add wrenches as i havent read all the articles. but from my life experiences being active duty for 22 years
most of our bases for some reason are not in the best parts of town, maybe said policeman was on higher alert simply because of location?
and we also know that and it should be questioned?
thanks guys/gals for the spirited discussion, i learn so much here
lets get back to the drones now