For those who have declared firearms at the airport...

[TexasTransplant]

I believe you need to have a TSA lock on the outside of your bag. I have always had one, so I'm not sure what happens if you do not.

Are you saying that you have a locked container inside your regular luggage, then you lock the luggage with a TSA-approved lock?

My luggage is a steel 81mm mortar case, and the pistol(s) are locked inside of it (along with my clothes, toiletries, camera, etc) with a NON-TSA lock. Once in a while you get a confused airline staffer or TSA agent who are so used to seeing a small lockbox inside of a conventional piece of luggage, that they'll try to tell me I can't fly that way. I've always resolved those misunderstandings amicably and to my satifaction.

I do the same thing, with a Pelican case. Nice!

[ronbo83]

I believe you need to have a TSA lock on the outside of your bag. I have always had one, so I'm not sure what happens if you do not.

Are you saying that you have a locked container inside your regular luggage, then you lock the luggage with a TSA-approved lock?

My luggage is a steel 81mm mortar case, and the pistol(s) are locked inside of it (along with my clothes, toiletries, camera, etc) with a NON-TSA lock. Once in a while you get a confused airline staffer or TSA agent who are so used to seeing a small lockbox inside of a conventional piece of luggage, that they'll try to tell me I can't fly that way. I've always resolved those misunderstandings amicably and to my satifaction.

I do the same thing, with a Pelican case. Nice!

Same here. I am using a large pelican case that serves as both my luggage and my hard sided gun case. It looks like any other case that audio or video people would use. I agree that every now and then the airline agent is confused by the luggage and locked gun case being the same thing but it has always worked out. For me this is the best scenario, my gun as well as my other possessions are secured by 2 non-TSA locks and I don't have to worry about attaching my small gun case to the cheap aluminum frame of most suit cases. Small price for peace of mind!

[TexasTransplant]

I believe you need to have a TSA lock on the outside of your bag. I have always had one, so I'm not sure what happens if you do not.

Are you saying that you have a locked container inside your regular luggage, then you lock the luggage with a TSA-approved lock?

My luggage is a steel 81mm mortar case, and the pistol(s) are locked inside of it (along with my clothes, toiletries, camera, etc) with a NON-TSA lock. Once in a while you get a confused airline staffer or TSA agent who are so used to seeing a small lockbox inside of a conventional piece of luggage, that they'll try to tell me I can't fly that way. I've always resolved those misunderstandings amicably and to my satifaction.

I do the same thing, with a Pelican case. Nice!

Same here. I am using a large pelican case that serves as both my luggage and my hard sided gun case. It looks like any other case that audio or video people would use. I agree that every now and then the airline agent is confused by the luggage and locked gun case being the same thing but it has always worked out. For me this is the best scenario, my gun as well as my other possessions are secured by 2 non-TSA locks and I don't have to worry about attaching my small gun case to the cheap aluminum frame of most suit cases. Small price for peace of mind!

Agreed. By the way, what lock did you choose? I have two Abloy 321's.

[terryg]

Robert,

You forgot show them the picture:



(from his post here)

I love the Gucci labels ...

[RoyGBiv]

I believe you need to have a TSA lock on the outside of your bag. I have always had one, so I'm not sure what happens if you do not.

Are you saying that you have a locked container inside your regular luggage, then you lock the luggage with a TSA-approved lock?

Yes... Exactly
(Sorry for the slow reply.... I hadn't check this thread in a while..)

I use this as my gun case inside my luggage. It has it's own, NON-TSA lock.
I hold the key and stay with the bag until it is completely screened by TSA and cleared to be put on the aircraft.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/store ... =329211197" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After TSA has checked my unlocked luggage, I give them a TSA lock to add on the outside of my luggage.
The TSA screener has always been happy to put the TSA lock on for me, since you cannot touch your bag after it's been screened.

IIRC, if you have a lock on the outside it MUST be TSA compliant or they have the right to cut it off if they need to check the contents.
Once they remove the TSA lock form the outside of your luggage and find the non-TSA lock on your gun case, you'd better hope they also find the orange tag in your luggage, outside the gun case, that tells the TSA screener that the contents of the locked case they cannot open were already checked.

[GhostTX]

Hmmm very interesting stuff. I wonder why exactly the TSA allows either or? Personally, I feel safer with a Non-TSA lock on the Suitcase/luggage that the Locked Container containing the Firearm is in, simply because it makes me feel a bit better that no one is going to "disappear" the gun out of my suitcase. Its good to know that there is a degree of flexibitly in the regulations though, as it seems to provide a choice based on preference to the owner of the gun/traveler.

No, no, no. Only the hard-sided firearm case can have the non-TSA lock. The suitcase has to have a TSA lock.

The way around this, as it's been mentioned above, is if the whole suitcase is a hard-sided container that has the firearm inside.

[IChangIT]

Moving a Ruger P91DC from CA to TX, by way of Denver. Flew out of Long Beach with US Air. Went directly to the counter to check my bags and declared I am transporting a handgun. Lady did not blink an eye. Told her I'm Active Mil, don't know if that helped. She asked me to sign the form, had me unlock case (original Ruger plastic box) and put the slip in. Did not ask about ammo (had none). Zipped my softside luggage up and off I go. Upon arrival I noted that TSA had stamped the luggage tag and it look like they did open the luggage and the case was moved. Nothing went wrong. We'll see how the next segment DEN-SAT on United goes.

[E.Marquez]

Hmmm very interesting stuff. I wonder why exactly the TSA allows either or? Personally, I feel safer with a Non-TSA lock on the Suitcase/luggage that the Locked Container containing the Firearm is in, simply because it makes me feel a bit better that no one is going to "disappear" the gun out of my suitcase. Its good to know that there is a degree of flexibitly in the regulations though, as it seems to provide a choice based on preference to the owner of the gun/traveler.

No, no, no. Only the hard-sided firearm case can have the non-TSA lock. The suitcase has to have a TSA lock.

The way around this, as it's been mentioned above, is if the whole suitcase is a hard-sided container that has the firearm inside.

Not quite how I read the reg, nor what I have experienced.

There is NO reg I have read that states ONLY a TSA lock can be on the outside..of the OUTSIDE container / bag.. It is suggested, recommended, but not required. And I have never used a TSA lock, traveled dozens of times with case in a case, both locket with two each American Series 200 locks.
BUT if you choose to use a non TSA lock and they decide to inspect, if you can not be reached to come unlock it, your non TSA lock will be cut off.. If that then leaves your fire arm container unsecured, your luggage stops right there. If you use the box in a box, like I do with two pelican cases, even if TRSA cuts the two outside pelican case locks, my fire arm is in a smaller double locked pelican case,, My luggage would go though, or be held if they insist on hand inspecting the firearm case, as they will NOT cut that lock to do inspection.


T

[RoyGBiv]

To my knowledge, Bronco is correct.
A TSA lock on the outside of the bag allows TSA to gain entry should they deem it necessary. They can/will cut off a non-TSA lock if they cannot find you to open a case they want to inspect. A non-TSA lock on the inner gun case prevents (in theory) anyone from opening the gun case except you.

The one thing that still causes me to scratch my head a bit is.... Where does the signed card go?

In my experience, the "Checked Firearms" signed card always has been placed inside my luggage, but outside the locked gun case. I always assumed that this was in case the TSA opened the luggage (TSA lock) and found a locked case (non-TSA lock) inside. The card outside the case was proof that the locked case was already "checked" and they )TSA) had no reason to delay the luggage for the locked inner gun case.

But.... I've read here in this thread and other places that some of you have had the signed card placed inside the locked gun case. This would seem counterproductive to me. What good would the signed card be inside the locked case for which only you had the key?

Anyone have a definitive answer on this?

[E.Marquez]

To my knowledge, Bronco is correct.
A TSA lock on the outside of the bag allows TSA to gain entry should they deem it necessary.
A non-TSA lock on the gun case prevents (in theory) anyone from opening the gun case except you.

The one thing that still causes me to scratch my head a bit is.... Where does the signed card go?

In my experience, the "Checked Firearms" signed card always has been placed inside my luggage, but outside the locked gun case. I always assumed that this was in case the TSA opened the luggage (TSA lock) and found a locked case (non-TSA lock) inside. The card outside the case was proof that the locked case was already "checked" and they )TSA) had no reason to delay the luggage for the locked inner gun case.

But.... I've read here in this thread and other places that some of you have had the signed card placed inside the locked gun case. This would seem counterproductive to me. What good would the signed card be inside the locked case for which only you had the key?

Anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Sent a list of RFI’s to TSA some months back, one of them was cards, notices, documentations required.
Airlines are specifically NOT allowed to mark or otherwise identify the outside of the luggage as containing a firearm. No way no how.

The only documentation required is a declaration by you the shipper, that the fire arm is unloaded, and that one piece of documentation is required to be placed inside the container with the firearm.

So that works out to your questions as .. It depends.
If the traveler is using just a single container (suitcase) and the firearm is in his unlocked sock, placed in a locked hard side container (suitcase), with a lock only he has access to, then the . declaration is going to be just placed in the suitcase.(with the firearm)

If you travel with a fire arm in a container inside a container (like I choose to)
Then the declaration is placed with the firearm, inside the only he has access to locked box , which is placed in the outside container (suitcase) locked with a TSA or non TSA lock.

[RHenriksen]

If the traveler is using just a single container (suitcase) and the firearm is in his unlocked sock, placed in a locked hard side container (suitcase), with a lock only he has access to, then the . declaration is going to be just placed in the suitcase.(with the firearm)

That's the way I pack a pistol. At IAH, it gets hand-inspected by a TSA agent while a Continental ticket counter agent stands by. When the hand-inspection is complete, the Continental agent hands the bag off to a pair of Continental baggage staff. I've always wondered where they go with it, to ensure it doesn't run afoul of some standard inspection process downstream.

Now, I've got a friend who works on the ramp throwing bags & turning around planes. He's told me that occasionally baggage staff will hand-deliver bags to him at the ramp, and he has to sign off on a delivery receipt to him. Signature required, apparently, because those bags contain firearms.

So, at least at IAH (and Continental), the firearms bags get hand-delivered to the ramp where your plane will load, after their TSA inspection in the terminal.

[RoyGBiv]

If you travel with a fire arm in a container inside a container (like I choose to)
Then the declaration is placed with the firearm, inside the only he has access to locked box , which is placed in the outside container (suitcase) locked with a TSA or non TSA lock.

Interesting.... I can 100% believe that you're information is correct Bronco... but.. I've flown with a checked handgun a half-dozen times or so ... DFW, FLL, RDU, CVG (on a FL license, although the airport is in KY my destination was in OH)... and have always had the signed card inside the soft bag, outside the locked gun case (always on top of the gun case).

It's entirely possible I'm just doing it wrong and it's not a big enough deal for anyone at the airport to correct me. I would THINK that the TSA inspector that hand-checks the soft bag would have said something if the card had to be inside the locked case, but, never. I'll have to ask specifically next time.

Come to think of it.... I've never been asked to open the locked gun case. Maybe that's why I've not ever put the card inside. I never contemplated opening the case inside the airport if I'm not specifically asked to do so. I always assumed the TSA inspector was looking at the x-ray to confirm that the gun was not loaded.

Maybe I just have an "honest face"..

[Excaliber]

To my knowledge, Bronco is correct.
A TSA lock on the outside of the bag allows TSA to gain entry should they deem it necessary. They can/will cut off a non-TSA lock if they cannot find you to open a case they want to inspect. A non-TSA lock on the inner gun case prevents (in theory) anyone from opening the gun case except you.

The one thing that still causes me to scratch my head a bit is.... Where does the signed card go?

In my experience, the "Checked Firearms" signed card always has been placed inside my luggage, but outside the locked gun case. I always assumed that this was in case the TSA opened the luggage (TSA lock) and found a locked case (non-TSA lock) inside. The card outside the case was proof that the locked case was already "checked" and they )TSA) had no reason to delay the luggage for the locked inner gun case.

But.... I've read here in this thread and other places that some of you have had the signed card placed inside the locked gun case. This would seem counterproductive to me. What good would the signed card be inside the locked case for which only you had the key?

Anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Roy is correct - -placing the card inside the case the TSA has no access to makes no sense. One of the major reasons for the card is so that any TSA agent who opens the bag can readily see that the gun was declared at the ticket counter. If the card is inside the box he can't get into, the purpose is defeated.

I have seen ticket agents insist that the card go inside the box with the firearm, but that is simply an error that stems from their ignorance of the procedure and its purpose. That hasn't happened to me in over 10 years.

[E.Marquez]

To my knowledge, Bronco is correct.
A TSA lock on the outside of the bag allows TSA to gain entry should they deem it necessary. They can/will cut off a non-TSA lock if they cannot find you to open a case they want to inspect. A non-TSA lock on the inner gun case prevents (in theory) anyone from opening the gun case except you.

The one thing that still causes me to scratch my head a bit is.... Where does the signed card go?

In my experience, the "Checked Firearms" signed card always has been placed inside my luggage, but outside the locked gun case. I always assumed that this was in case the TSA opened the luggage (TSA lock) and found a locked case (non-TSA lock) inside. The card outside the case was proof that the locked case was already "checked" and they )TSA) had no reason to delay the luggage for the locked inner gun case.

But.... I've read here in this thread and other places that some of you have had the signed card placed inside the locked gun case. This would seem counterproductive to me. What good would the signed card be inside the locked case for which only you had the key?

Anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Roy is correct - -placing the card inside the case the TSA has no access to makes no sense. One of the major reasons for the card is so that any TSA agent who opens the bag can readily see that the gun was declared at the ticket counter. If the card is inside the box he can't get into, the purpose is defeated.

I have seen ticket agents insist that the card go inside the box with the firearm, but that is simply an error that stems from their ignorance of the procedure and its purpose. That hasn't happened to me in over 10 years.

Who decides what the procedure is?
TSA stated specifically
" the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm. This notice alerts Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) to the presence of the firearm if they have to open the bag to inspect it. "

That is the written guidance, and is interpreted one of two ways, but complying with the guidance.

If a gun is shipped in a single container, locked with user lock, the declaration will be inside that container and not accessible by TSA.

If the double container is used, either the tag is in the inner case or the outer one, both ways it is adhering to the written guidance "the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm"

I understand how you have interpreted the guidance, but TSA reps are seeing it other ways sometimes.. Intentions aside, both follow the rules.

I asked a follow on question after receiving the response above.

"TSA Contact Center; Thank you for the prompt response to my questions..
If you could clarify one thing.
The declaration tag, when I travel I place my firearm in a locked box, which is placed in my locked luggage (another secure pelican case). Where should the declaration tag be placed? "

Response:
" The declaration tag is required to be placed inside the checked baggage containing the firearm, not in the outside bag, the firearm container may be separated from the other bag, and the declaration tag must stay with the firearm"

[Excaliber]

To my knowledge, Bronco is correct.
A TSA lock on the outside of the bag allows TSA to gain entry should they deem it necessary. They can/will cut off a non-TSA lock if they cannot find you to open a case they want to inspect. A non-TSA lock on the inner gun case prevents (in theory) anyone from opening the gun case except you.

The one thing that still causes me to scratch my head a bit is.... Where does the signed card go?

In my experience, the "Checked Firearms" signed card always has been placed inside my luggage, but outside the locked gun case. I always assumed that this was in case the TSA opened the luggage (TSA lock) and found a locked case (non-TSA lock) inside. The card outside the case was proof that the locked case was already "checked" and they )TSA) had no reason to delay the luggage for the locked inner gun case.

But.... I've read here in this thread and other places that some of you have had the signed card placed inside the locked gun case. This would seem counterproductive to me. What good would the signed card be inside the locked case for which only you had the key?

Anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Roy is correct - -placing the card inside the case the TSA has no access to makes no sense. One of the major reasons for the card is so that any TSA agent who opens the bag can readily see that the gun was declared at the ticket counter. If the card is inside the box he can't get into, the purpose is defeated.

I have seen ticket agents insist that the card go inside the box with the firearm, but that is simply an error that stems from their ignorance of the procedure and its purpose. That hasn't happened to me in over 10 years.

Who decides what the procedure is?
TSA stated specifically
" the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm. This notice alerts Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) to the presence of the firearm if they have to open the bag to inspect it. "

That is the written guidance, and is interpreted one of two ways, but complying with the guidance.

If a gun is shipped in a single container, locked with user lock, the declaration will be inside that container and not accessible by TSA.

If the double container is used, either the tag is in the inner case or the outer one, both ways it is adhering to the written guidance "the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm"

I understand how you have interpreted the guidance, but TSA reps are seeing it other ways sometimes.. Intentions aside, both follow the rules.

I asked a follow on question after receiving the response above.

"TSA Contact Center; Thank you for the prompt response to my questions..
If you could clarify one thing.
The declaration tag, when I travel I place my firearm in a locked box, which is placed in my locked luggage (another secure pelican case). Where should the declaration tag be placed? "

Response:
" The declaration tag is required to be placed inside the checked baggage containing the firearm, not in the outside bag, the firearm container may be separated from the other bag, and the declaration tag must stay with the firearm"

(Sigh)

The most likely way for the inner container to get separated from the outer container is by the direct intervention of a less than honest TSA agent, of which the agency has had quite a run lately.

The TSA is apparently just as competent in managing this simple procedure as they are with many others.

All theories aside, the only viable option when traveling is to do whatever the ticket agent and TSA agents who are handling your ticket and your luggage tell you to do, however illogical that may be.