Weapon Free School Zone?

[urnoodle]

Can someone set me straight on this? The instructor in my December CHL class stated weapon-free school zones were those posted with a weapons free sign only. And a CHL holder is not permitted to possess a firearm as he or she travels through one. I've been reading CHL-16 but I don't see anything stating posted only. What I'm confused about is the 1996 federal legislation to make all schools gun-free:

"(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise
affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that
the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to
believe, is a school zone."

If I'm understanding correctly, effective notice is provided by the speed limit sign marking where the school zone begins and ends. I have 3 exits from my subdivision and 2 of the 3 I must pass through a school zone. There are another 4 or 5 I pass through on my way to work. Several of them the "premises" is within 300ft of the road. So does the law require weapons free school zones to be posted with a weapon free sign? Would I be breaking the law by passing through these zones with my firearm in my vehicle? Does it apply when school is not in session?

[speedsix]

...if you go back and read the entire current Federal law on WFSZ, you'll find out that your instructor, if he said that, was wrong...as CHL, we are permitted to be in a school zone with a loaded handgun in the state which our CHL was issued...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_S ... ct_of_1990" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... pdf&page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[urnoodle]

That will make my life so much easier. I thought I would have to take the scenic route to work and it already takes me nearly an hour to get there. I'm absolutely sure my instructor stated it that way. He told us a personal story to emphasize it. He wasn't feeling well that day so it might not have been delivered the way he intended. Thanks for the clarification!

[speedsix]

...I'm checking to see what happened to HR 2613 that Ron Paul introduced last year...trying to repeal the onerous law...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-2613" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[urnoodle]

It is a pretty pathetic law. I think there are more kids shooting adults than adults shooting kids. Besides I think my car can go faster than any kid can run.

[speedsix]

...the biggest danger kids face in school zones is other mothers dropping off their kids and late to work...I live close enough to an elimentary school that the sign during the regime of the original GFSZ law was planted in my front yard...and we go the back ways to avoid the hollow point minivans!!!

[Jumping Frog]

That is what happens when someone like your instructor quotes a snippet of code without understanding how it fits with the rest of the code. You'll find that 2(A) prohibits the behavior, but that 2(B) lists all the cases where 2(A) does not apply -- including Texans with a CHL.

Read it for yourself, including the section he quoted in green as well as the section I highlight in red. You'll answer your own questions that way and not have to rely upon saying, "well I read it in an internet forum"..

18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that -
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary (!3) the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves – even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection.
(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.
(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

[urnoodle]

Hollowpoint minivans , I'll have to use that. I've been in two car accidents caused by others, both minivans. It's gets funnier, the first accident the woman was on her way to pick up her daughter at school and she was late so she was on her cell phone when she ran the red light. While I was being moved she came over to check my status and apologize, she then handed me her business card with her insurance info on it. Later in the hospital when I had a chance to look at it, she was a liquor distributor.

Thanks jumping frog for pointing out what I missed. All that subparagraph mumbo jumbo gets me confused. I'm going to email it to some of the others in my class so they can have the same clarification. There are too many school zones in DFW to avoid.

[Jumping Frog]

Hollowpoint minivans , I'll have to use that. I've been in two car accidents caused by others, both minivans. It's gets funnier, the first accident the woman was on her way to pick up her daughter at school and she was late so she was on her cell phone when she ran the red light. While I was being moved she came over to check my status and apologize, she then handed me her business card with her insurance info on it. Later in the hospital when I had a chance to look at it, she was a liquor distributor.

Thanks jumping frog for pointing out what I missed. All that subparagraph mumbo jumbo gets me confused. I'm going to email it to some of the others in my class so they can have the same clarification. There are too many school zones in DFW to avoid.

I've read an analysis that said over 90% of the population of the United States lived within 1000 feet of a school. In urban areas, it is literally impossible to travel without criss-crossing school zones. . .

[tbrown]

I followed Federal Law and bought my gun from someone in Texas. That's not interstate commerce so, in accordance with the United States Constitution, this law doesn't apply to me.

[PappaGun]

I followed Federal Law and bought my gun from someone in Texas. That's not interstate commerce so, in accordance with the United States Constitution, this law doesn't apply to me.

But according to the current administration's view of the IC law, NOT traveling through a school zone frees up space for some one else who MIGHT be traveling interstate. Thus you are affecting interstate commerce and therefor regulated.

[tbrown]

I know I'm right and I'm willing to appeal to the highest authority if necessary.

[ELB]

I followed Federal Law and bought my gun from someone in Texas. That's not interstate commerce so, in accordance with the United States Constitution, this law doesn't apply to me.

But your gun, or its parts, the stuff used to make the gun, etc etc etc were in interstate commerce at one point, so you're still screwed.

[ELB]

As noted above, you can legally carry a concealed loaded handgun in a Texas school zone if you have a Texas CHL. It appears that this exception might not apply to concealed handgun licenses not issued by the state (or political subdivision, etc) in which the school zone lies. IOW, even if Utah recognizes the Texas CHL, it may or may not be legal under federal law for you to carry in a Utah school zone on your Texas CHL (nor in a Texas school zone on your Utah CHL). I believe the BATFE has said reciprocally recognized licenses do not qualify (too lazy to go look it up right now), but I do not believe the Feds have arrested someone in this situation and then defended that interpretation in court.


Previous discussions on this forum for your reading pleasure:

FAQ: Gun Free School Zone Act

[C-dub]

I followed Federal Law and bought my gun from someone in Texas. That's not interstate commerce so, in accordance with the United States Constitution, this law doesn't apply to me.

But your gun, or its parts, the stuff used to make the gun, etc etc etc were in interstate commerce at one point, so you're still screwed.

That's where I was going to go.