Nurses and CHL's

[PeteCamp]

I have a dilemma. My wife is going to get her CHL soon, but I have been worried about her for some time and I don’t think the CHL will help much. Let me explain.

She is an RN at a local hospital ER in a nearby city. The hospital is posted 30:06. The problem is she works 7:00pm until 7:00am. The hospital is not in a great part of town. They have security, but they are the usual fare, unarmed and largely clueless. In addition, they almost never provide escort to the vehicle for hospital employees. Most days she simply parks as close as she can and walks alone to the car. She has had a few scares, but almost always tries to hide the incidents from me.

We have talked at length about whether the CHL will help or not. She can put a gun in the car now, under the MPA, but she would never be able to access it in time if needed. She “could” carry the gun concealed with the CHL– we all know about concealed means concealed, but she would be in trouble if she ever got caught. I’ve considered an ASP (illegal), pepper spray (probably useless), a taser (who knows?) or even a big knife. None of these are really acceptable - too much training required, or not really effective enough, or just plain downright illegal.

I am a sworn officer (chaplain) in the city we live in, but it would be unethical for me to expect any special treatment if she got in trouble with an illegal weapon defending herself. Who knows how the DA would react.

I think it is terribly unfair to make health care workers so vulnerable to bad things in the parking lot when they already face so many dangers in their work. I sure wish some legislator in Austin would address this issue as it applies to CHL holders. Anyway, I know some of you have wives or girlfriends in the same situation. How are you handling this issue?

[srothstein]

I agree on getting the legislature to change the law. But if it is a private hospital, I don't think this is going to help much. I do support private property rights and think the company should be able to ban guns if it wants to.

In most cases like this, I would say that self-defense overrides the job and it is just a choice of how much you like the job. But in the case of hospitals, it is illegal to carry when they are properly posted. Is the self-defense argument strong enough to override worry about being arrested?

In the meantime, I strongly recommend that you look at a Taser. Not just any stun gun, but specifically a civilian model Taser. Yes, like anything else, a Taser may not stop the BG, but I have a lot of faitht hat they will stop him almost as often as a pistol will and much more than anything else. In addition, the Taseer is legal to carry in Texas. And the civilain model has an interesting clause that really reduces the long term cost. They are designed to stunt he BG for 30 seconds. The company advises the user to stun the person, drop the Taser, and run. With a gun in the car under MPA, this becomes a very viable solution. And, if the Taser is used to stop a crime, and the police are called to report it, Taser will give the person a replacement Taser for free. I need to point out that this was their policy when the civilian version was introduced and I don't know if it still is true. I have not heard anything different though.

[tallmike]

I agree with a taser or pepper spray on her person and a gun in the car. The other option is for her to find another job.

None of us should want to see private property rights further degraded.

[Commander Cody]

I have worked at several hospitals. All that I worked for would provide a security guard to walk with the ladies to their cars. Tell her to ask.

[Divided Attention]

I think the issue here is "From" the car to building. I agree with pepper spray and taser. I would also encourage a class on self defense. A seat or console mounted holster for easy access in the car and a good lockbox for while she is in the building.
Is there a buddy she can meet up with to not make the walk alone. Been there done that in reverse 7a-7p. The security guards were often scarier than by myself or with a buddy and we would drive each other to our cars. JMPHO wish her the best, we nursey types have to stick together.

[wgoforth]

Not saying they should of course.... but I know several Drs who carry into 30.06 posted hospitals saying they go in and out all times of day and night and that people might try to stop them for drugs.

[fishfree]

The employer should provide an escort to the car (and armed if it is a rough area!). Otherwise which is preferred (a) be a victim and in accord with the rules or (b) risk being fired/prosecuted for staying alive and safe? Clearly the politicians expect you to decide between a, b or c- find another job.

A fourth (remote) possibility exists and that is to lobby to get all RN's classified as 'FIRST RESPONDERS' and to have first-responders exempted from chl restrictions (they may already be exempted; I hope the armed EMT doesn't turn around and leave if he sees a 30.06 sign!!!).

For what it is worth my mother was a nurse at a county hospital in a bad part of a big city ... lots of crime/assaults/robbery/hopped up drug addicts. She carried a 32 auto in her purse- sixty years ago; when a concealed handgun was a felony! Back then I doubt any DA would have pressed charges had she ever needed to use it.

[PeteCamp]

Thanks one and all for the suggestions and advice. I think I will look into the Taser / gun in the car idea. That sounds plausible. My wife is only a couple of years away from retirement, so changing jobs is out and any idea of an equitable way to legislatively allow CHL holders to carry if they work in hospitals on certain shifts sounds less and less like any kind of option. Thanks for the ideas and considered thoughts.

Edit: The first responder idea sounds interesting.

[denwego]

I support the taser suggestion as well. A number of years ago I worked at a place in another state which banned guns where I worked, but not electronic weapons, and trust me, there was no way I was going unarmed in that part of town.

The one thing to consider with a "civilian" model taser is that you get one shot. A single shot is going to massively ruin an attacker's day, but it doesn't stop his buddy, and there's no way to change cartridges on the fly while the taser is discharging. A small thing of pepper spray might be a backup consideration just in case... I hadn't thought about this myself back in the day.

[Greybeard]

If not known about already, you might want to look at Kimber Pepper Blaster II.

[aaangel]

I have worked at several hospitals. All that I worked for would provide a security guard to walk with the ladies to their cars. Tell her to ask.

THIS....

i also work at an ER in downtown fort worth. i get off @ 2300 and sometimes when i'm far away i usually ask for a security guard. ( i like riding the golf car )

[JustMe]

When I worked full time at the hospital(I am an RN)--any shift, but particularly the night shift, the supposed security was as bad or worse than what might be waiting in the parking lot!

[PeteCamp]

When I worked full time at the hospital(I am an RN)--any shift, but particularly the night shift, the supposed security was as bad or worse than what might be waiting in the parking lot!

This is her problem as well. Identifying the threat becomes confusing.

[howdy]

There is no first responder exemption for 30.06. I know many of our department's EMS and Firefighter personnel have their CHL (I taught them) and we have no department restriction on carrying....BUT, that 30.06 sign at all our hospitals is legal and I contend carrying past it would not be legal. Many Do carry the taser.

Paramedic
CHL Instructor