FN Five Seven

[LowGrainHighPain]

I did a search, but it did not yield anything. I know I have seen them on here before.

Is there anyone who carry's a Five Seven? Do you have pictures? IWB or OWB?

Thanks
Carl

I carry a Five-seveN IWB using a Crossbreed Supertuck holster. The Five-seveN weighs less fully loaded with 21 rounds than a Glock 17 empty. To make a long story short, I can't even feel it on my hip.

[LowGrainHighPain]

I am not for sure how good they are for cc. They do look interesting. Shot one at Bass Pro hat belonged to someone else.

There is a lot of reading out thers on the Five Seven. Positive and negative.

Gun-Tests magazine did a comparison between the FN5.7 and the Keltech PMR30, and they decided that they liked the PMR30 better by a narrow margin......cheaper price for the gun, cheaper ammo, better ammo availability.

http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/23_11/f ... 913-1.html

Our Team Said: Shooting the 5.7 is fun. Thanks to the excellent trigger, light recoil, mild muzzle flip, and capacious magazine, we blistered targets at a rapid rate. Lock into it and the slide pistons back and forth as empties fly out. When the magazine runs dry, slap another one home, hit the slide release, and keep going. Practical accuracy is excellent, and man-sized targets are easy to hit. But these same traits appear in the PMR-30 for half the price.

............................

Our Team Said: We originally thought that the Kel-Tec PMR-30 might be considered a poor man’s 5.7, but now we think the KT is the better gun overall. That it’s one-third to one-half the price and ammo is one-third to one-half the price as well makes this an easy call. We hope to see a shorter barrel and shorter grip version of the PMR-30 soon.

When they tested both cartridges in a ballistic media, actual penetration and cavitation size were nearly identical between the 5.7x28 fired from the FN pistol and the .22WMR fired from the Kel-Tec pistol.

Something to think about.....

The author of the article you mentioned is either high, incompetent, or both.

In a pistol-to-pistol comparison, with 40-grain bullets, the 5.7x28mm EA loads achieve a muzzle velocity roughly 700 ft/s faster than the .22 Magnum.

When 30-grain bullets are compared pistol-to-pistol, the 5.7x28mm EA loads achieve a muzzle velocity roughly 1000 ft/s faster than the .22 Magnum.

In a pistol-to-pistol comparison, the 5.7x28mm EA loads produce about three times the muzzle energy of the .22 Magnum.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunblast.com/FN-FiveseveN.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Keltec is a plinker, the Five-seveN is a legitimate self-defense handgun.


Penetration and cavitation were nearly identical? Was this author dropped on his head shortly after being born?

Here is a very well made video detailing the differences between the Five-seveN and the Kel-Tec PMR-30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0RC4_8Nt60

[LowGrainHighPain]

I have one in my safe (not mine though).I think it is too big for CC, at least for me ( I CC a 4" 1911). I also believe that it has way too much penetration and does too little damage, kinda like an ice pick in flesh. I shot this thing completely through a 4x4 post so I doubt meat will even slow it much. The bullets are sharp, not JHP. I just got a PMR30 which I am interested in CC as it holds 31 rds of .22WMR.

There are many rounds of 5.7x28mm ammo that consistently tumble or fragment/expand in ballistic gelatin. The 5.7x28mm round was designed specifically NOT to over-penetrate and there are no current 5.7x28mm rounds available that simply "ice-pick" through gelatin - you must be talking about the Kel-Tec PMR-30. That indeed does ice-pick in gelatin. There are two main types of 5.7x28mm rounds; one fragments/expands and the other tumbles.

[LowGrainHighPain]

I have been carrying a FiveseveN as my Monday-Friday carry for a while now. I use a crossbreed SuperTuck Deluxe. It conceals fine, but I don't tuck it as it causes a bit of a bulge, but with an untucked shirt, it hides easily enough.
I like the 5.7 caliber personally, but I understand it is not for everyone. The FN offers me high capacity, a flat shooting accurate round, with a lot of penetration. With the border violence as bad as it is and the cartel influence over here, I wanted a handgun that would have those specific capabilities. I don't think the 5.7 is a better self-defense round than .45 or .357, but it does allow me to pack a lot of rounds in a magazine, and fire very quickly in the event I find myself dealing with a certain criminal element.
In the event the FiveseveN does not float you boat as an EDC, it is still a fun gun to shoot and an interesting addition to your collection!

Correct, the Five-seveN pistol is no better choice than a 9mm, .40S&W, or 45ACP, but it does have some advantages. Namely; it will hold 21 rounds in a flush-fitting magazine or 31 with an extension that measure 1.5 inches, It is the lightest full-size pistol in the world, it will easily penetrate level IIIa armor, it has hardly any recoil offering faster follow up shots than any other legitimate self-defense caliber.

[7075-T7]

Agh!!

This thread is making me want a PS90 again

Darn you Stargate SG-1!!!

[rm9792]

I have one in my safe (not mine though).I think it is too big for CC, at least for me ( I CC a 4" 1911). I also believe that it has way too much penetration and does too little damage, kinda like an ice pick in flesh. I shot this thing completely through a 4x4 post so I doubt meat will even slow it much. The bullets are sharp, not JHP. I just got a PMR30 which I am interested in CC as it holds 31 rds of .22WMR.

There are many rounds of 5.7x28mm ammo that consistently tumble or fragment/expand in ballistic gelatin. The 5.7x28mm round was designed specifically NOT to over-penetrate and there are no current 5.7x28mm rounds available that simply "ice-pick" through gelatin - you must be talking about the Kel-Tec PMR-30. That indeed does ice-pick in gelatin. There are two main types of 5.7x28mm rounds; one fragments/expands and the other tumbles.

I dont have any empirical data just me playing with it. I assumed that if it would penetrate a 4x4 all the way then meat would be no barrier. I need to go see the gelatin pics I guess. Although according to the last episode of CSI (they featured a P90 with 5.7 ammo) you cant even buy the gun or ammo in the USA. Guess all that ammo in the safe is just my imagination.
I have only shot my PMR30 at paper.

[MadMonkey]

Okay, I'm chiming in even though I don't have much to add

I've carried a Five-Seven a bit in a CompTac MTAC IWB holster, and it's surprisingly comfortable (for a full-size gun). Unfortunately I didn't even get it broken in before I ended up over here. They're very nice guns and VERY fun to shoot, not to mention accurate. I've heard some complaints about the triggers, but from my own experience they're fine. Nothing special, but most definitely usable.

As for ballistics, there are some videos that someone finally did comparing the FN-branded ammo you'll get at the gun shop (SS197 and 195), and ammo from Elite Ammunition which is significantly better. Gelatin tests are included. If I didn't have such crappy internet here I'd dig them up and post them.. maybe someone else will assist? I know they were made by someone on Zombie Squad.

In my own humble opinion, I'd have zero issues carrying the Five-Seven as my permanent defensive gun. I prefer OWB though, but I haven't picked up a holster for it yet... so I'm usually carrying my USPc instead. 20+1 rounds in a lightweight, concealable, accurate and effective package is nothing to scoff at... and yes, that comparison between the .22 Magnum and 5.7X28 is WAY off.

[74novaman]

Correct, the Five-seveN pistol is no better choice than a 9mm, .40S&W, or 45ACP, but it does have some advantages. Namely; it will hold 21 rounds in a flush-fitting magazine or 31 with an extension that measure 1.5 inches, It is the lightest full-size pistol in the world, it will easily penetrate level IIIa armor, it has hardly any recoil offering faster follow up shots than any other legitimate self-defense caliber.

Uh, isn't the bolded part just with the "we only sell this stuff to the military" ammunition?

I know you can hand load your own to do what you want, but to claim that civilians should choose this weapon because it can penetrate body armor with factory, easy to obtain ammunition isn't quite correct, is it?

[The Annoyed Man]

The author of the article you mentioned is either high, incompetent, or both.

{snip}....

Penetration and cavitation were nearly identical? Was this author dropped on his head shortly after being born?

Geeze, you don't have to be insulting about it. Nice way to start off your career here. Are you familiar with Gun-Tests Magazine? Here is what the article said about the comparative performance of the 5.7 cartridge compared to the WMR cartridge, both fired into Balllistic Technology's Handgun Bullet Test Tubes:

Looking at those energy differences would suggest better terminal performance for the 5.7, but our tests of the two in a channel-forming media suggest otherwise. We used several tubes of Ballistic Technology’s wax-like, easy-to-use Handgun Bullet Test Tubes (#100-002-900, $28) to take the guesswork out of determining terminal bullet performance. We were able to accurately measure penetration, retained bullet weight, expansion, and wound-cavity size for the two rounds and found the magnum more than holds its own with the 5.7. At close range we fired one 5.7 round into the 11-inch-long, 3.5-inch-wide Handgun Test Tube. It carved out a 60-ml channel (total water volume) up to 1.2 inches wide, but didn’t exit the tube. A second 5.7 opened a 75-ml channel, and also didn’t exit the tube. For the 22 WMR, we first tried one tube, since it was "only" a 22 Mag. The Bullet Test Tube states that one tube is sufficient for 9mm through 45 ACP cartridges, and two tubes should be used for magnum loads. The Remington PSP had enough energy to punch a quarter-inch-wide and half-inch-long hole through the metal end of the tube, exiting an entire tube length. So we reshot it with two tubes. The round punched 4 inches deep into the second tube (15 inches overall penetration) and created a 60-ml wound channel. The Super-X didn’t exit the first tube (the mushroomed bullet stuck inside the tube cap) and created a 66-ml channel. The Dynapoint traveled 14 inches into the media and chewed out a 50-ml channel.

So, Yeah, if "dropped on his head" means that he went out and methodically tested both cartridges in a purpose made ballistic medium created specifically to test handgun bullets and then factually and without bias reported the results, then yeah, he was dropped on his head.

Possibly though, he actually might have known what he was talking about. One thing about Gun-Tests: they accept NO advertising, zero, zip, nada, from any of the manufacturers whose products they test. They actually go out and buy all the products, guns and ammo included, from retailers at retail prices. In other words, they don't have a dog in the hunt. Furthermore, they didn't knock the FN pistol. They actually said that they liked it a lot. They just liked the PMR-30 better. You can take that or leave it. Either is fine with me. I would agree that, generally speaking, Kel-Tec guns are somewhat minimalist, which is why they cost so much less than other guns, but they tend to function just fine and offer a good gun for a cheap price. I'm not a fan of the brand per se, but honestly, I'd probably buy a PMR-30 over the FN, based on the price differential. Also, I'm not relying on a pistol like that for SD. I'm not saying it doesn't have its use in that regard, but I already have a regular rotation of good quality pistols in solid traditional SD pistol calibers. If I needed a rifle caliber in 30 round magazines, I'd throw an AR carbine in the back of the car......which I do sometimes anyway.

[MadMonkey]

Correct, the Five-seveN pistol is no better choice than a 9mm, .40S&W, or 45ACP, but it does have some advantages. Namely; it will hold 21 rounds in a flush-fitting magazine or 31 with an extension that measure 1.5 inches, It is the lightest full-size pistol in the world, it will easily penetrate level IIIa armor, it has hardly any recoil offering faster follow up shots than any other legitimate self-defense caliber.

Uh, isn't the bolded part just with the "we only sell this stuff to the military" ammunition?

I know you can hand load your own to do what you want, but to claim that civilians should choose this weapon because it can penetrate body armor with factory, easy to obtain ammunition isn't quite correct, is it?

http://www.eliteammunition.net/home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ammunition from Elite Ammunition is easy to obtain. They have a lot of very hot loads for the Five-Seven and P(S)90. If you look over some ballistics tests and real-world results (of which there are admittedly few) you'll find that even the FN-branded "civilian" ammo is effective.


I found the link on the Zombie Squad forums that I was talking about:
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=78715" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25 pages with some very good (and some lousy) information... and someone finally tests the ammunition. If you watch the videos posted later in the thread, you'll see that there is pretty much zero REAL WORLD comparison between the .22WMR and 5.7X28. Check out some data on temporary wound cavities, also... the 5.7 is strong in that department.

[chuckybrown]

LowGrain---------

-----TAM is one of our most respected members. I think I can speak for most on here when I suggest we all need to be mindful of *respect* when posting.

[Liberty]

LowGrain---------

-----TAM is one of our most respected members. I think I can speak for most on here when I suggest we all need to be mindful of *respect* when posting.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any disrespect from LowGrain toward TAM, but rather it was aimed towards an author on a gun rag, or gun board. We, on this board, try to keep bombastic rhetoric down to a minimum, as well as the false accusations.

This discussion on the firearms and the ammunition in this thread has been very informative to me, and are a lot more interesting than the endless threads of wonderfulness of Glocks and 1911s.

[speedsix]

...would the 5.7 round remain stable or would it tend to tumble and bounce around in the body, creating more punctures? I haven't read any detailed accounts of why it is so effective at stopping humans....but at those high speeds, hydrostatic shock injury could be a part of it...has anyone here seen autopsy results to see how they work inside the body?

[Munk]

I would also like to see exactly how the bullet travels "inside the body". I assume it would bounce around or travel bone. I will admit though, the more I read about the 5.7 the more I am intrigued and inclined to seriously look at purchasing one.

It's lighter than my Ultra CDP II but I'm sure it would take some getting used to carrying around the larger sized platform.

[speedsix]

...I'm interested for a house gun...seems that any family member could easily master it...IF the stopping power's there...I like the hi-cap mag for that...