A word about small CC guns

[wgoforth]

While small guns have their uses, no one ever came out of a gunfight wishing they had brought a smaller gun, and I'm sure some people didn't come out of a gunfight because the gun they brought was too small.

I don't disagree that no one would say they wish they had a smaller gun, and I agree bigger is better... but consider that no handgun is as big as a long gun either. You can be like Clint Smith who says a handgun is what you use to fight your way back to your rifle you shouldn't have left behind to begin with. If it isn't size wars, it is caliber wars. I could have a mile long gun, but if it wasn't someone else's caliber then it isn't worth shooting. I guarantee you could carry a Glock 23 and many would tell you it isn't gun enough because it isn't a .45. They could tell you your exact quote above too. My point is, it is subjective, it is ALL a compromise based on what works for the individuals daily life and what they can and will shoot. I am as confident that I can hit my target with my 238 as I am with my P226. Someone actually asked me "But if you KNEW you were going to be in a fight, would you bring the 238 to it?" And the answer is "no"...nor would I bring my 226 (though SEALS and Texas Rangers carry it), I would call the cops and stay home. BTW, my 238 is larger than the LCP/TCP/P3AT so I guess I can say I don't have a "smaller gun"? Unless your toting a .50 cal BMG, chances are your carry is smaller than something else.

BTW, I do carry extra mags too.

[wgoforth]

Some might be surprised by this 10 year study of real life shootings....broken down by caliber. Examine number of rounds before incapacitation, one-shot-stop, percent of hits that were fatal. Now, it doesn't explain all...like ball vs hollow point, but leads me to believe shot placement is as important (if not more so) than caliber. http://buckeyefirearms.net/node/7866" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rcasady]

one thing i noticed carrying a small (p238) gun that was more menacing than any accuracy problems was drawing . your not gonna hit a thing if you find yourself struggling to get it out or end up holding it with 2 fingers ........practice practice practice with shooting and drawing , i was shocked how bad i sucked when i practiced under more stressful situations (moving / off balance/ one handed )

[wgoforth]

one thing i noticed carrying a small (p238) gun that was more menacing than any accuracy problems was drawing . your not gonna hit a thing if you find yourself struggling to get it out or end up holding it with 2 fingers ........practice practice practice with shooting and drawing , i was shocked how bad i sucked when i practiced under more stressful situations (moving / off balance/ one handed )

That's strange... how do you have it holstered? It wouldn't be a good pocket gun, but draws great from a holster. I have it in the bullard body guard, 15 degree forward cant at 5:00. I used to pocket carry the other mouse guns, but the one time I actually needed to pull it for real, I analyzed afterwards and realized how slow it was to draw from pocket. BTW, I also sugget carrying a magazine holster on weak side. He has a 2 mag holster for the 238.

Mine is like this, but for the 238

[Ruark]

You are correct in noting that X degrees is X degrees, regardless of barrel length. The problem is, as was also noted, that a smaller sighting radius means that LESS barrel movement is needed to move the aiming point X degrees.

At 20 feet, you will shoot approximately 4.2 inches off target for every ONE degree the barrel swings. If the barrel pivots, say, 3 degrees, that's over 12 inches at 20 feet, enough to miss a target completely. And therein lies the crux of the matter: a little 2 inch barrel covers 3 degrees with much LESS muzzle movement than a big full sized 1911. While you'd have to be a pretty sloppy shot to swing a big pistol 3 degrees off target, with a little pocket gun a 3 degree error would be almost imperceptible, and could thus get you killed.

Once again, I'm by no means decrying pocket guns - I carry a P238 .380 - but just stating my opinion that using a pocket gun for CC carries with it a MUCH greater requirement for practice and skill than a larger gun, especially for the inexperienced shooter or first time gun buyer.

[wgoforth]

You are correct in noting that X degrees is X degrees, regardless of barrel length. The problem is, as was also noted, that a smaller sighting radius means that LESS barrel movement is needed to move the aiming point X degrees.

At 20 feet, you will shoot approximately 4.2 inches off target for every ONE degree the barrel swings. If the barrel pivots, say, 3 degrees, that's over 12 inches at 20 feet, enough to miss a target completely. And therein lies the crux of the matter: a little 2 inch barrel covers 3 degrees with much LESS muzzle movement than a big full sized 1911. While you'd have to be a pretty sloppy shot to swing a big pistol 3 degrees off target, with a little pocket gun a 3 degree error would be almost imperceptible, and could thus get you killed.

Once again, I'm by no means decrying pocket guns - I carry a P238 .380 - but just stating my opinion that using a pocket gun for CC carries with it a MUCH greater requirement for practice and skill than a larger gun, especially for the inexperienced shooter or first time gun buyer.

Understand that your not going to be "aiming" for the most part at all in a self defense scenerio with these. These are all intended as gut-guns. Pull and shoot. Intended for bad breath range, up close and personal. For such, you don't use sites (no time) I teach "body imaging." Aim your hand at someone with finger extended, like making a gun. You can quickly see there is body hanging over each side of your finger. Pull, point, shoot COM. Thats how you shoot in the close range self defense.

[bayouhazard]

A gun that's too big for your hands can be as hard to shoot as a gun that's too small.

It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

[wgoforth]

A gun that's too big for your hands can be as hard to shoot as a gun that's too small.

It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

Love Sigs, but those pretty wooden grips often makes them too wide for me to reach the trigger comfortably,

[rcasady]

one thing i noticed carrying a small (p238) gun that was more menacing than any accuracy problems was drawing . your not gonna hit a thing if you find yourself struggling to get it out or end up holding it with 2 fingers ........practice practice practice with shooting and drawing , i was shocked how bad i sucked when i practiced under more stressful situations (moving / off balance/ one handed )

That's strange... how do you have it holstered? It wouldn't be a good pocket gun, but draws great from a holster. I have it in the bullard body guard, 15 degree forward cant at 5:00. I used to pocket carry the other mouse guns, but the one time I actually needed to pull it for real, I analyzed afterwards and realized how slow it was to draw from pocket. BTW, I also sugget carrying a magazine holster on weak side. He has a 2 mag holster for the 238.

Mine is like this, but for the 238

its not a problem anymore , i was just surprised initially drawing a small pistol and getting it right where i want it , especially working the small safety . also noticed how bad i pull to the right if i wrap my finger around the trigger as opposed to the pad of my finger . little things i realized when caught off guard and having to lift a shirt or now a sweater up
i looked at bullard holster quiet a bit , i ended up with a kholster then made my own hybrid that i prefer , i wear at 2 0clock .. it's the most comfy for me and my body type , i prefer 5 o clock but nothing conceals well there for me , the old love handles like to push anything out like a sore thumb .... i;ll have to check out the 2 mag holster . currently i carry 1 extra in a safariland metal holster and i wear it iwb ...i like it . i like the bare bones thin as possible stuff. i dress very casual even gym shorts but always got the sig

[strider67]

I was actually surprised at how accurate I was with my LCP the first time I took it out. I was able to keep all my shots on a standard-sized torso target at 15 yards... close-in was very good.

Honestly, sometimes I think I shoot smaller guns better than the larger ones. Less barrel flopping around, less weight, easier to hold straight on target... it all comes down to trigger control with them.

Out of curiosity, how do you best control the trigger on your LCP? I recently acquired one, and while improving, I am still pretty inconsistent beyond "close-in".

[wgoforth]

I was actually surprised at how accurate I was with my LCP the first time I took it out. I was able to keep all my shots on a standard-sized torso target at 15 yards... close-in was very good.

Honestly, sometimes I think I shoot smaller guns better than the larger ones. Less barrel flopping around, less weight, easier to hold straight on target... it all comes down to trigger control with them.

Out of curiosity, how do you best control the trigger on your LCP? I recently acquired one, and while improving, I am still pretty inconsistent beyond "close-in".

Get a snap cap and in the evenings point at a dot on the wall and practice shooting it w/o it coming off the dot...paying attention to how much finger you use on the trigger. Also, you can get a laser for it by Crimson Trace that will help to train you for shooting it.

[strider67]

Get a snap cap and in the evenings point at a dot on the wall and practice shooting it w/o it coming off the dot...paying attention to how much finger you use on the trigger. Also, you can get a laser for it by Crimson Trace that will help to train you for shooting it.

Will do...thanks for the tips.

[wgoforth]

Get a snap cap and in the evenings point at a dot on the wall and practice shooting it w/o it coming off the dot...paying attention to how much finger you use on the trigger. Also, you can get a laser for it by Crimson Trace that will help to train you for shooting it.

Will do...thanks for the tips.

If you are in Weatherford, I'm only 1.5 hours away from you. Come down sometime and we can work on that at the range.

[strider67]

If you are in Weatherford, I'm only 1.5 hours away from you. Come down sometime and we can work on that at the range.

I'll definately take you up on that one day. My wife is from Rising Star and we occasionally visit, as she still has family residing there. (Going to RS Homecoming is one of the things I look forward to all year.)

I believe you and your wife do instruction and have thought about contacting you when things warm up a little, as to have her accompany me, as well. Not trying to take advantage of your kindness, however...

[wgoforth]

If you are in Weatherford, I'm only 1.5 hours away from you. Come down sometime and we can work on that at the range.

I'll definately take you up on that one day. My wife is from Rising Star and we occasionally visit, as she still has family residing there. (Going to RS Homecoming is one of the things I look forward to all year.)

I believe you and your wife do instruction and have thought about contacting you when things warm up a little, as to have her accompany me, as well. Not trying to take advantage of your kindness, however...

By all means, come on down. Feel free to "like" us on Facebook at Castle Keep Services