Question about schools....

[whitewolfz30]

I was trying to find out what is considered a "school" or "educational institution". My daughter takes gymnastics and I am usually at work when she goes but last night I was off and was able to go and watch her. I actually wasn't carrying because I had just come from a military base (work), but when I got there I noticed a no gun sign. I wish I had taken a picture but I didn't. It wasn't 30.06. It said "the licensed and unlicensed possesion of a firearm is prohibited and punishable of $xxxx and xxxx time imprisionment." That isn't verbatum what it said, but it's darn close. It cited no laws or codes, only that it was forbidden and punishable. Anyways, I was thinking that perhaps they think it constitutes as a school or learning center since it teaches kids gymnastics. The establishment also is a venue that can be rented out for "Special Occasions- Weddings, Quinc's, Graduation, Birthday Parties, Bridal & Baby Showers & Seminars", but that is not it's primary function. Also, it is privately owned. Just curious as to the validity of the sign as far as being enforcable.

[RoyGBiv]

IANAL.!!

Follow the bouncing code references...
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only reference I find in this document that attempts to provide a definition of "School" is...

PC §46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMITTED WITHIN
WEAPON-FREE SCHOOL ZONE.

(c) In this section, "institution of higher education," "premises," and
"school" have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and
Safety Code.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/health/481.134.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(5) "School" means a private or public elementary or
secondary school or a day-care center, as defined by Section
42.002, Human Resources Code.

Emphasis added by me.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/human-resou ... 02.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(7) "Day-care center" means a child-care facility that
provides care for more than 12 children under 14 years of age for
less than 24 hours a day.

[whitewolfz30]

Thanks for those links. After reading through them I suppose it could be considered a "learning center". But it is interesting to me because I have read the discussions on here about places like the zoo's who claim to have "schooling" take place so carry is illegal but that people carry anyways because the property is owned by the city. Seems like there are quite a few loopholes...as in everything I guess.

Oh well, at the end of the day, I guess "concealed" means "concealed".

[RoyGBiv]

This is strictly my opinion... Worth what you paid for it..

A gymnastics studio is neither a "school" or "daycare" as defined above.
A "school" or "daycare", I would expect it to be licensed and posted as such.
Check their business licenses. They are required to be conspicuously posted.
The gun-buster signage is not 30.06 compliant, per your description.

I would not be dissuaded from carrying there, however, if the proprietor has an objection to the 2nd Amendment, I would be hesitant to give them my money...

I might consider having a discussion with the proprietor about their reasons for posting. Maybe get them to change their attitude about wanting to make their business a defense-free zone... But I would definitely NOT mention that their signage is not compliant.

Caution: Striking up a conversation about it opens you up to being given a verbal prohibition to carry in that establishment. That would be valid, regardless of the signage.

IMHO, IANAL, YMMV..... EIEIO

[whitewolfz30]

Yeah, I do not plan on informing them about proper sign posting. I have spoken twice with the owner (about other things) and she is one of those ladies that thinks she is better than everyone else. I don't like her at all. I am kind of stuck because where I live they are the one place that works with the local schools to help prep the girls for high school cheerleading which is what my daughter wants to do (she will be in high school next year). So I don't want to give them my business but do not want to "take away" from my daughter either. I might "inquire" about the purpose of the sign next time I am there. I personally think the owner doesn't want guns around her business based on what I know about her. Thanks for the responses.

[C-dub]

I am not one of the "concealed is concealed" folks and I would carry there and not be worried a bit about their sign.

[TxFig]

Point blank - it is NOT a school. It is a business.

Period. End of story.



no, I am not a lawyer.

[sjfcontrol]

Point blank - it is NOT a school. It is a business.

Period. End of story.



no, I am not a lawyer.

Businesses can be schools -- private schools.

[TxFig]

Point blank - it is NOT a school. It is a business.

Period. End of story.



no, I am not a lawyer.

Businesses can be schools -- private schools.

Private schools fall under different rules. For example, the folks who run a private school can give permission for CHL holders to carry.

(a church we visited was located at a private school, who did exactly that).

[Keith B]

Point blank - it is NOT a school. It is a business.

Period. End of story.



no, I am not a lawyer.

Businesses can be schools -- private schools.

Private schools fall under different rules. For example, the folks who run a private school can give permission for CHL holders to carry.

(a church we visited was located at a private school, who did exactly that).

Actually, any school administration can give permission to carry. The Harrold ISD board has allowed teachers with CHL's to carry since 2008. http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/ ... 1720080815" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Zoti]

I thought a school is defined as a public or government facility that has classes from K and up (in reference to CHL. I don't know where the quotes above are from).

[Keith B]

I thought a school is defined as a public or government facility that has classes from K and up (in reference to CHL. I don't know where the quotes above are from).

Private accredited schools are off limits also.

[BrianSW99]

It's my understanding that daycares and pre-K only type schools are not off limits for CHL, though I don't remember exactly which statute that comes from at the moment. I know that they aren't considered schools or educational institutions under the Texas Education Code.

Brian

[Zoti]

What Brian said. That's what I remember regarding private day cares.

[Ameer]

I don't think there's case law. Anyone want to be a test case?