LEO tearing up a tick cause of CHL

[para45]

If he indeed tear up the ticket, he then tampered with a government document, and could get in trouble for doing so. Currently going through the Academy has enlightened me one somethings. I would be careful, and check with the agency!

[srothstein]

Just to help confuse things, some agencies are much more concerned about ticket fraud than others. SAPD required us to mark the ticket void and send it in to the court for filing (no questions ever asked when I did it, but they accounted for the ticket numbers and ticket books). In Luling PD we ripped up tickets all the time. The court only cared about the tickets turned in to them.

My advice would be to wait a little while (processing takes about a week in most cases - check maybe two or three days before the court date on the ticket) and then call the court. Say you lost the ticket and see if they have anything outstanding on you. Some courts will and some won't be able to check just by name. This way you could say that you thought it was a municipal or county or whatever and are checking with both the municipal and JP courts to be sure. No one gets in trouble if he did rip it up or void it and if not, you get a chance to take care of it before it become a warrant. If it is still outstanding, then you can mail it in and file the complaint with the PD internal affairs unit about the call.

[Aggie_engr]

I got a ticket once (pre-chl) for reasons I won't discuss, and the officers came back a little while later and gave me a short lecture on what I had done wrong and why and said they felt the need to tear up the ticket and advised me to stay out of trouble in the future. I was floored, studdering, etc and and all I could do was thank them. So it does happen, just rarely I would assume.

[AEA]

Would be nice if the OP would come back with a followup to this thread............

[LedJedi]

Thought i'd give you folks an update on this. The officer must have cleared the ticket, because there still is no indication of a ticket or warrant in the system.

Pretty awesome.

[The Annoyed Man]

She can just contact the agency that the officer worked for and ask if they have an outstanding traffic ticket that she needs to pay. They should advise if there is anything pending.

This.

As far as the fishing for my personal information, the odds of having an already written ticket torn up are astronomically low, so I'm going to be circumspect about what I provide or don't provide. I am required to show both my TDL and CHL if stopped. I will comply with that requirement. If asked for an address, "Officer, you've got my both my driver's license and my CHL in your hand. That's my address." That's all I am required to provide. If I am being slapped with a ticket, then I'm not likely to feel particularly disposed to provide more information than the legally required minimum. If asked for a cell phone number, "Officer, I'm sorry, I don't give my cell phone number out to anyone." If asked for a SSN, "Officer, I'm sorry, but I've been a victim of identity theft multiple times, and I simply don't provide that information to anyone anymore. I'm sure you understand, and if you really need it, you'll have resources at your disposal back at your station to find it out."

If pressed, I'm likely to ask why he/she needs the information, and I'm likely to politely refuse to give it out unless there is a truly specific and important reason for them to have it. 99.9% of their reasons for asking are not going to be truly necessary from a law enforcement perspective. Unless I match the description of someone wanted on an APB, all I am required to give them appears on the face of my state issues licenses. Generally speaking, I want to be courteous cooperative with LEOs with whom I come into contact, but a fishing expedition is exactly that, fishing, and I am a citizen of the United States of America. I am not required to submit to fishing expeditions, and such questions could easily be answered, "I'll give you mine if you give me yours."

All of that said, I've never actually been subjected to a fishing expedition. It must be my angelic face. On the other hand, my last moving violation was a speeding ticket issued on Christmas Eve of 1999 by the California Highway Patrol on a long straight downhill section near the end of Kanan Dume Road in the Malibu mountains. I was going 60 in a 55 zone. I don't tend to drive in a manner that attracts police attention.

Now, if I am a witness to a crime or accident, or something along those lines, and I am interviewed by an LEO who asks for a cell phone number, I'll gladly give it to him/her, because there could very easily be a legitimate reason for that officer to need to follow up with me for additional information, etc. In such a case, I would gladly hand the officer my business card, which has my cell phone number, email address, and home address on it. As a general rule, because of the aforementioned identity theft cases, I really don't give my SSN to anybody anymore, I don't care who they are, and I always include that explanation in my refusal. Like I said, my general desire is to be cooperative with LEOs with whom I come into contact. I understand that they do an often difficult job, and that they are sometimes not paid enough for what they do, and I appreciate that very much. But, I am citizen of the US of A, my taxes pay their salaries, and I won't submit to non-specific fishing expeditions. I am pretty sure that the Constitution is still in effect, and I won't be intimidated into handing out my sensitive information to a complete stranger, even if he or she is wearing a badge. If I do give it out, it has to be because I have been convinced through a logically defensible explanation of the legitimate necessity of doing so.

[fulano]

I know the thread is somewhat evolving. Back to the poster's initial comment.....my view on the value of the CHL w/re to an LEO encounter.

My wife is on the fence on getting her CHL so I've been trying to help her over. This winter I found her an instructor who trains women and holds CHL courses for women.

I met her after the "handgun training class" she offers for women only. In the discussion, she said it is common at least in the N. TX area that a traffic stop for many women ends after the LEO sees the CHL. I'd not heard this before; now this poster makes two. I assume there are many more.

I'm not sure the same is true for men. Often the man's reason for getting the CHL is different from the woman's. Or perhaps it is that statistically, men are the common perpetrators of any offense so the LEO is leery of the male CHL holder. Who knows.

[Reloader]

My daughter received a ticket 9 years ago..the City of Converse only activated the warrant when it was found "under a desk:. claimed it was never entered in the system and they could not find her; she has always had a current and correct DL in Texas. Was told they do not try to contact after warrant issued.Too much trouble. She now has to pay an additional $250 for 3 years because of the ticket for no insurance. Converse ALSO said when fine is paid, she will lose license for 5 more years as punishment. She had called and written for over 7 years asking to pay ticket and was told no ticket was active. Was also told no attorney can represent her.i guess she has no recourse.

[OldCurlyWolf]

My daughter received a ticket 9 years ago..the City of Converse only activated the warrant when it was found "under a desk:. claimed it was never entered in the system and they could not find her; she has always had a current and correct DL in Texas. Was told they do not try to contact after warrant issued.Too much trouble. She now has to pay an additional $250 for 3 years because of the ticket for no insurance. Converse ALSO said when fine is paid, she will lose license for 5 more years as punishment. She had called and written for over 7 years asking to pay ticket and was told no ticket was active. Was also told no attorney can represent her.i guess she has no recourse.

bull. Hire an Attorney, Sue the city. Put them on the defense. Statute of limitations is over.
Stick it to the City where the sun doesn't shine.

[puma guy]

My daughter received a ticket 9 years ago..the City of Converse only activated the warrant when it was found "under a desk:. claimed it was never entered in the system and they could not find her; she has always had a current and correct DL in Texas. Was told they do not try to contact after warrant issued.Too much trouble. She now has to pay an additional $250 for 3 years because of the ticket for no insurance. Converse ALSO said when fine is paid, she will lose license for 5 more years as punishment. She had called and written for over 7 years asking to pay ticket and was told no ticket was active. Was also told no attorney can represent her.i guess she has no recourse.

bull. Hire an Attorney, Sue the city. Put them on the defense. Statute of limitations is over.
Stick it to the City where the sun doesn't shine.

[srothstein]

My daughter received a ticket 9 years ago..the City of Converse only activated the warrant when it was found "under a desk:. claimed it was never entered in the system and they could not find her; she has always had a current and correct DL in Texas. Was told they do not try to contact after warrant issued.Too much trouble. She now has to pay an additional $250 for 3 years because of the ticket for no insurance. Converse ALSO said when fine is paid, she will lose license for 5 more years as punishment. She had called and written for over 7 years asking to pay ticket and was told no ticket was active. Was also told no attorney can represent her.i guess she has no recourse.

Some of the other posters have said the charges are void because of the statute of limitations. This may be correct but may not be. The statute begins running when the offense is committed and stops running when the charges are filed with the court. If the ticket was found under the desk int he police station, then the statute of limitations has probably expired (there are some weird circumstances that could extend it) because it is only two years for misdemeanors. If the ticket was filed with the court and then the warrant for not appearing is what was found under the desk and "activated", then the statute of limitations doe snot apply because the charge was filed within the two year limit.

The $250 surcharge per year does not apply for any offense committed before 2003, so if it was 9 years ago, this would not matter. The law is clear on the date the offense was committed, not the date of conviction or anything like that.

Also, she will not lose her license for any time at all for the conviction, let alone the five years claimed. There is simply no such law. If she has a prior conviction for not having insurance, her license could be suspended for a maximum of two years from the date of the second conviction unless she files an SR-22. If she maintains the sr22 for two years, then her license won't even be suspended.

But all of this gets us to the second point. If she never was given a court date and never pled guilty, she has not yet been convicted. She should plead not guilty and request a jury trial. See if they even still have the cop who wrote the ticket as an employee - or can find him - to subpoena him as a witness. Then see if he can remember the incident well enough to testify. I would bet the case gets dismissed. Or, if you have the proof, you could show that she really was insured back then and the case would have to be dismissed.

Or, if she is honest - and from your description of things it sounds like this is the case - and she really was driving without insurance, she could call the prosecutor and work out a plea bargain with him. This could include the amount of the fine she is to pay, what the charge will be reported to DPS as, etc. I would recommend this as probably the best option to quickly resolve the matter. And, if you have documentation of any of the threats made about fines and losing her license, use them (combined with the facts) to help convince the prosecutor to go easy. I don't think they would like to appear on the news to explain them.

[LSUTiger]

I wished that would have happened to me.

I was speeding 10 MPH in a school zone the first day of school. I entered the road on a side street so there were no flashing yellow lights to remind me, so I thought I was going the regular posted limit of 30MPH. I had my kid in the car on the way to daycare in the morning and I was already late for work. I saw the lights behind me and pulled into the daycare parking lot to get off the road.

My kid still in the car, the officer goes through his speech about a school zone and did I see the lights. (I didnt get that part until later)

Anyway he lets me bring my kid inside the day care. She was scared. I come out and he asks about my CHL and where is the gun. The gun was in the trunk of the car because cars in the daycare parking lot are periodically robbed. (They should spend more time trying to catch the car robbers than collecting and serving but I guess catching criminals cost taxpayers money, writing tickets generates revenue)

I totally forgot to show him when giving him my license because of the kid in the car and worrying about being late. (Honestly, felt like just hurry up and write so I can get on with life) So I gave it to him. I wish he would have given me a break then but no luck. As I recall there is no longer a penalty for not showing the CHL but you have to show it. What can they charge you with? What are they going to do to you? I have to reacquaint myself with the law on this.

Anyhow, no break on ticket, no grief for not showing CHL but if shown immediately, ticket may have been avoided, maybe maybe not?

[fishman]

Show up in court and see if her name is called. (on the court date)

[boba]

Show up in court and see if her name is called. (on the court date)

What court date?

[LedJedi]

There is/was no court date. The guy apparently tore it up because there is no warrant anywhere for her at this point.