The "Utah Problem" is back in uglier clothing

[Charles L. Cotton]

We need to throw water on the legislators starting the fires and fanning the flames.

Good thing we have an election before the next session. Fix the legislators = fix the legislative intent.

I could not disagree with you more. You aren't talking about anti-gun legislators, you're talking about men and women who have been very good friends to gun owners. It's not about guns; it's about circumventing legislative intent. It wouldn't matter if we were talking about driver's licenses, electrician's licenses, or any other license issued by the State. Your all-or-nothing approach would endanger everything we've accomplished for 15 years.

Chas.

[The Annoyed Man]

We need to throw water on the legislators starting the fires and fanning the flames.

Good thing we have an election before the next session. Fix the legislators = fix the legislative intent.

I could not disagree with you more. You aren't talking about anti-gun legislators, you're talking about men and women who have been very good friends to gun owners. It's not about guns; it's about circumventing legislative intent. It wouldn't matter if we were talking about driver's licenses, electrician's licenses, or any other license issued by the State. Your all-or-nothing approach would endanger everything we've accomplished for 15 years.

Chas.

This.

[Shinesintx]

I have a Utah License. Why? It was cheaper and less time consuming. Do I have the money to spend on a Tx license? Yes. Then why did I not get the Texas CHL? The Utah permit was cheaper and less time consuming...not to mention that I do not like being in a data base that a LEO can look into. Am I paranoid? Maybe, but I feel the same way about being in a data base...as I feel about having to have my guns registered. I fear the State. I do not want Texas getting into or knowing my business.

Every Tx CHL licenser that I have spoken to has pretty much said that the shooting portion was a joke. Maybe because the ones I have spoken with actually know how to shoot. I shoot a few thousand rounds a month...did not need that portion.

As an anti Texas CHL Utah Permit holder, I would bite the bullet and get a Tx CHL just to appease the lawmakers. I do not want to ruin CHL for my other Texas brethren. It sucks, but I would do it for the greater good. Crap, that statement sounds communistic...does it not?

[apostate]

As an anti Texas CHL Utah Permit holder, I would bite the bullet and get a Tx CHL

You will have to do that to renew your Utah license, thanks to a new Utah law.

[Shinesintx]

As an anti Texas CHL Utah Permit holder, I would bite the bullet and get a Tx CHL

You will have to do that to renew your Utah license, thanks to a new Utah law.

1) There is always another state...Florida.
2) Who is to say that in 5 years...Utah does not repeal it?
3) I may end up getting the Tx CHL for giggles.

[Keith B]

As an anti Texas CHL Utah Permit holder, I would bite the bullet and get a Tx CHL

You will have to do that to renew your Utah license, thanks to a new Utah law.

1) There is always another state...Florida.
2) Who is to say that in 5 years...Utah does not repeal it?
3) I may end up getting the Tx CHL for giggles.

You may end up having to get a Texas CHL period due to the very irresponsible and in your face anti-Texas advertising practices of a few instructors when the legislature decides to make Texas a state that only honors your CHL if it is from your state of residence. Colorado, South Carolina, Michigan, New Hampshire, Maine and Florida are already that way. Florida is one of those that is contradictory in the fact it issues non-resident permits, but will not honor a non-resident permit other than its own.

Bottom line, a few bad apples WILL end up ruining it for all of us in the bunch.

[The Annoyed Man]

I have a Utah License. Why? It was cheaper and less time consuming. Do I have the money to spend on a Tx license? Yes. Then why did I not get the Texas CHL? The Utah permit was cheaper and less time consuming...not to mention that I do not like being in a data base that a LEO can look into. Am I paranoid? Maybe, but I feel the same way about being in a data base...as I feel about having to have my guns registered. I fear the State. I do not want Texas getting into or knowing my business.

Every Tx CHL licenser that I have spoken to has pretty much said that the shooting portion was a joke. Maybe because the ones I have spoken with actually know how to shoot. I shoot a few thousand rounds a month...did not need that portion.

As an anti Texas CHL Utah Permit holder, I would bite the bullet and get a Tx CHL just to appease the lawmakers. I do not want to ruin CHL for my other Texas brethren. It sucks, but I would do it for the greater good. Crap, that statement sounds communistic...does it not?

I have a Utah CFP also, but I got mine after I got my CHL. My reasons were A) the reciprocity with 4 additional states, and B) as an emergency fall back if there were some delay in the processing of my CHL renewal such that my renewed license would be received after the old one expired.

There is a right way, and a wrong way, to do things. Thanks to the irresponsibility of a few greedy instructors who put profits ahead of progress in 2nd Amendment issues, I'm about to lose (B) as a lawful option. Try to imagine how little sympathy I have for instructors who advocate that their students try and skirt Texas law, unless financial hardship can truly be claimed by the student.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Keith is right. Out-of-state licenses and licensees are not a problem and we have many years of experience to back that up. The problem began and will come to a conclusion because of irresponsible advertising by a small number of instructors. Even after Utah changed its laws in response to outcry from New Mexico, Nevada and other state legislatures, these instructors still tout the Virginia, Florida, [fill in the blank] license as a way to carry in Texas if you 1) don't pay your child support; 2) don't pay your taxes; or 3) have a deferred adjudication. That's what started and continues to fuel the issue. At least some instructors have dropped the more inflammatory statements, but when your selling points are "no shooting" and "no test," you can expect a negative response.

Don't bother telling me the money provisions violate the Texas Constitution. I know they do; that's why I'm looking for a case to take to the Texas Supreme Court. Don't bother telling me it's absurd to consider a successfully completed deferred adjudication a "conviction" for CHL eligibility purposes. I know it is and that's why we changed the law to make it easier for people to avoid this trap and why we need to repeal that provision in 2013.

I don't like the situation any better than anyone else. However, it is what we are facing and we should place blame on the appropriate shoulders.

Chas.

[DEB]

Keith is right. Out-of-state licenses and licensees are not a problem and we have many years of experience to back that up. The problem began and will come to a conclusion because of irresponsible advertising by a small number of instructors. Even after Utah changed its laws in response to outcry from New Mexico, Nevada and other state legislatures, these instructors still tout the Virginia, Florida, [fill in the blank] license as a way to carry in Texas if you 1) don't pay your child support; 2) don't pay your taxes; or 3) have a deferred adjudication. That's what started and continues to fuel the issue. At least some instructors have dropped the more inflammatory statements, but when your selling points are "no shooting" and "no test," you can expect a negative response.

Don't bother telling me the money provisions violate the Texas Constitution. I know they do; that's why I'm looking for a case to take to the Texas Supreme Court. Don't bother telling me it's absurd to consider a successfully completed deferred adjudication a "conviction" for CHL eligibility purposes. I know it is and that's why we changed the law to make it easier for people to avoid this trap and why we need to repeal that provision in 2013.

I don't like the situation any better than anyone else. However, it is what we are facing and we should place blame on the appropriate shoulders.

Chas.

Thank you Charles for telling it like it is and fighting the good fight.

[fickman]

Don't bother telling me the money provisions violate the Texas Constitution. I know they do; that's why I'm looking for a case to take to the Texas Supreme Court.

[gwashorn]

Keith is right. Out-of-state licenses and licensees are not a problem and we have many years of experience to back that up. The problem began and will come to a conclusion because of irresponsible advertising by a small number of instructors. Even after Utah changed its laws in response to outcry from New Mexico, Nevada and other state legislatures, these instructors still tout the Virginia, Florida, [fill in the blank] license as a way to carry in Texas if you 1) don't pay your child support; 2) don't pay your taxes; or 3) have a deferred adjudication. That's what started and continues to fuel the issue. At least some instructors have dropped the more inflammatory statements, but when your selling points are "no shooting" and "no test," you can expect a negative response.

Don't bother telling me the money provisions violate the Texas Constitution. I know they do; that's why I'm looking for a case to take to the Texas Supreme Court. Don't bother telling me it's absurd to consider a successfully completed deferred adjudication a "conviction" for CHL eligibility purposes. I know it is and that's why we changed the law to make it easier for people to avoid this trap and why we need to repeal that provision in 2013.

I don't like the situation any better than anyone else. However, it is what we are facing and we should place blame on the appropriate shoulders.

Chas.

Thank you and much appreciated.

[Ameer]

I could not disagree with you more. You aren't talking about anti-gun legislators,

With all due respect, their plan is to regulate and restrict where and how the average Texan can carry a handgun for self defense. That is, infringe the right of the people to bear arms. Call it what you want but it looks pretty clear to me.

[Keith B]

I could not disagree with you more. You aren't talking about anti-gun legislators,

With all due respect, their plan is to regulate and restrict where and how the average Texan can carry a handgun for self defense. That is, infringe the right of the people to bear arms. Call it what you want but it looks pretty clear to me.

Nice selective out of context cut and paste there Ameer. Do you work for the mainstream media?

We are talking about legislators who have always been major supporters of Texas gun owners and 2A and will go to bat as much as possible for us. The issue is these unscrupulous instructors are rubbing everyone's face in the fact you can bypass the Texas license and get one somewhere else that maybe doesn't have the same standards as ours from training, etc. Bottom line, it has been brought to the attention of the anti-gun legislators and they are raising a stink, so it rises to the surface and the anti's make a big deal out of it. If these idiots that are advertising their classes this way would realize (or care) that they are hurting concealed carry here in Texas and potentially doing their customers a disfavor by offering a license that may get the privileges taken away because of their lack of caring, and stop their advertising practices, the smell might fade away. However, I believe these instructors (or destructor's) are just in it for the buck and will move on to their next scheme and leave their path of ruin behind for the rest of us to suffer with.

[steve817]

If we can't trust native Texans to carry on a nonTX license, we sure can't trust Yankees to carry on a nonTX license!

OK now I'm with you.

[Ameer]

To make Keith B happy, I'll make my point without quoting anybody else. Out or in context.

Legislators who want to limit nonresident reciprocity, plus Straus and his Republican buddies who blocked campus carry, are not pro gun. They're not pro carry. Not when they intentionally support bills/laws to infringe the right of the people to bear arms.

Call it what you want but it looks pretty clear to me. Actions speak louder than campaign sound bites.