Need some advice on a ticket

[gigag04]

What happens when all the records and certifications are presented? We have that info readily accessible. Switching modes won't matter. All that changes is the violator speed displays in the patrol window. Anyone certified can testify to as much.

[srothstein]

Well, I guess I will jump in. First, to answer a secondary question. There is no requirement in Texas to show anyone the radar gun at any time, or even to actually lock in the reading. Since the actual gun will not be in the courtroom (unless you specifically subpoena it and have a good reason for it), it all comes down to the officer's testimony anyway. You can also testify to what you saw on your speedometer with just as much weight. Then it comes down to who has more credibility with the judge.

In Texas, you have three choices when it comes to a ticket. You can plead not guilty and request a trial. You can plead either no contest or guilty and pay the ticket. Or you can ask for deferred adjudication - either straight up or by taking defensive driving. If you plead not guilty, you have two basic options for fighting the ticket. You can argue how fast you were going or you can argue the safety of what you were doing. Arguing how fast you were going includes all of the arguments about the accuracy of the gun or the officer's training, etc.

For example, in this case, the OP could ask the officer how far from the light he was clocked at. People are notoriously inaccurate in judging distances, especially from memory, and generally underestimate the actual distance (proven in research studies). This is a benefit to this specific case because then he can use manufacturer specs and physics to show if it was possible to accelerate to that speed or not. You can sometimes win by arguing the speed, but it is rare. The problem with this is that you are basically agreeing (by not fighting) that the posted speed limit is the maximum legal speed. You are not charged with going 48 in a 30. You are charged with exceeding the posted limit. This means that even if you prove you were not doing 48, the prosecution wins if they prove you did 31 in a 30. And the fines the court can give are the same no matter how fast he finds you were going, if it is an illegal speed.

But you can also argue the safety aspect. The actual Texas law still says speeding is going faster than that speed which is reasonable and prudent for the conditions. The posted limit is just a prima facie case. This means that the burden of proof is shifted to you to prove that what you did was reasonable and prudent. The really cool part is that this means all you need to do is prove that the 30 was an unreasonably slow posted limit and you win. I will stipulate this is a really hard thing to do, because most judges will assume the speed limits are really properly set (and most of the time, I think they are). There is even one old case on reasonableness that ruled that exceeding the 55 mph limit was unreasonable, even though it was safe and the highway had been designed for 70 or more. The logic was that it jeopardized the federal highway funds the state gets, and this was very unreasonable.

When you fight the case, or even when you just discuss it with the prosecutor, you may represent yourself or you may hire a lawyer. The law does not change based on who is representing you. What does change is the knowledge and skill set involved. The prosecutor is probably fairly confident of beating you in court while he knows which lawyers handle traffic cases and just how good they are. This is one reason he is usually much more willing to give a layer a break than just the defendant. Though most prosecutors are so wrapped up with win rates and court costs that they will offer deferred adjudication to almost anyone if approached right.

Also, remember the words of SCOTUS Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: "The attorney who represents himself in court has a fool for a client". My experience on the stand says he was being kind to the client.

So, my recommendation is to take defensive driving if you are eligible, request deferred adjudication if you cannot take DD, and fight it only if you have a commercial driver's license where you cannot take either of these legally. A good lawyer can work some deals then that may prove very beneficial (such as a plea bargain to some other offense so your driving record stays clear).

[tommyg]

I knew a guy that beat some traffic tickets by demanding his right to a trial by jury


Not sure where it works get legal advise before you try this one

[03Lightningrocks]

I was in court years ago for some kind of minor infraction(I don't even remember what it was for at this point, maybe a hot check or something...I was young and dumb). Anyway, there were a few folks in the court room pleading traffic violations to the judge. Each and every one of them that I witnessed lost because each and every one of them admitted to being guilty of the violation they were charged with. They all had some kind of goofy excuse or the old argument about not going as fast as the ticket said. The judge almost sounded as if he found humor in the admitance of guilt, just not as guilty as the ticket said...LOL. I only had the pleasure of watching four or five before my turn came and I was allowed to leave. It was an experience that stuck with me forever. If I am going to fight a ticket for speeding, it won't be based on how much I was speeding...LOL.

One of my employees got a ticket a year or so ago and was going to go to court because he claims he was only going 6 over and the officer said he was going ten over. He discovered the fine is the same for either and just did the defesive driving bit. Most fines are in ranges anyway, so what would be the point of claiming 42 instead of 48?

[bat1]

I'll throw in my two cents
From what I've seen, the multiple target radar units produce different tones, they have audio and visual indicators to assist in tracking multiple targets, along with the ability to track both directions. In most cases the LEO will only track in one direction, and what happens( from my understanding) the cars going in his same direction will be masked, or not even seen, at some settings, he then only sees oncoming traffic, and depending on the distance between targets, the unit he has, he can get an exact reading. I've seen this, and a good LEO can quickly identify the speed of the different cars.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the LEO, Just to explaing how some of the units work..There has been time they got me and I'm thinking, I was NOT going that fast.. But, once in front of a judge, he quickly asked if I was going over at all....and I was going over So the judge agreed and I had to pay the ticket +

Good Luck,
BAT

[pcgizzmo]

Well, here's what happened. I went in and plead "not guilty" the judge said OK wait for a bit and the prosecutor would talk with me.

She came in and asked me "What my beef was?" in a joking manner. I told her normally I do differed adjudication on my tickets and pay if I know I was speeding but this time I just was not. I even offered to let her look me up on their system because I was sure there were a ticket or two on there. I tried to get into radar specifics and tracking etc.. but that went no where with her. Then I pulled out the video from the cruiser I got from the police station and showed it to her on my Ipad. She said "Well, if I were on a jury if I saw this video I don't know if I could tell you were guilty beyond a shadow of doubt so I'm dismissing it".

That was good enough for me. I said "thank you for taking the time to listen to me" and walked out. I'm a pretty happy camper right now.

Just thought I would post an update.

[steveincowtown]

Well, here's what happened. I went in and plead "not guilty" the judge said OK wait for a bit and the prosecutor would talk with me.

She came in and asked me "What my beef was?" in a joking manner. I told her normally I do differed adjudication on my tickets and pay if I know I was speeding but this time I just was not. I even offered to let her look me up on their system because I was sure there were a ticket or two on there. I tried to get into radar specifics and tracking etc.. but that went no where with her. Then I pulled out the video from the cruiser I got from the police station and showed it to her on my Ipad. She said "Well, if I were on a jury if I saw this video I don't know if I could tell you were guilty beyond a shadow of doubt so I'm dismissing it".

That was good enough for me. I said "thank you for taking the time to listen to me" and walked out. I'm a pretty happy camper right now.

Just thought I would post an update.

Glad it worked out. Always flex your rights. Even though most LEOs are extremely well trained and have the best of intentions, they are still human beings.

[McKnife]

Well, here's what happened. I went in and plead "not guilty" the judge said OK wait for a bit and the prosecutor would talk with me.

She came in and asked me "What my beef was?" in a joking manner. I told her normally I do differed adjudication on my tickets and pay if I know I was speeding but this time I just was not. I even offered to let her look me up on their system because I was sure there were a ticket or two on there. I tried to get into radar specifics and tracking etc.. but that went no where with her. Then I pulled out the video from the cruiser I got from the police station and showed it to her on my Ipad. She said "Well, if I were on a jury if I saw this video I don't know if I could tell you were guilty beyond a shadow of doubt so I'm dismissing it".

That was good enough for me. I said "thank you for taking the time to listen to me" and walked out. I'm a pretty happy camper right now.

Just thought I would post an update.

Congrats on the win!

What were the steps you had to take to request the video?

I assume the cop was filming BEFORE the traffic stop took place. Is this common? Are their cameras always recording? I was under the impression that they didn't turn on until physically activated by the officer or automatically when lights are activated.

Anyone know?

[C-dub]

I assume the cop was filming BEFORE the traffic stop took place. Is this common? Are their cameras always recording? I was under the impression that they didn't turn on until physically activated by the officer or automatically when lights are activated.

Anyone know?

A couple of gentlemen around here once explained that many systems are constantly recording, but dump everything after 30 or 60 seconds or whatever their cache is set for. This way, when they see something happening they push a button and it goes into active recording, or whatever, and does not dump the last 30 or 60 seconds and continues to record until the active recording is turned off.

Did I get that right guys?

[rm9792]

I knew a guy that beat some traffic tickets by demanding his right to a trial by jury


Not sure where it works get legal advise before you try this one

I do that several times a year in Houston. It wastes a day of my time but it is cheaper than the fines. They make you sit there for hours then dismiss the whole group. A lot of the limts in Houston are ridiculously low, look like traps to me. I usually get a least 2 48s in a 45 every year, feeder roads generating revenue. This doesnt work well in the smaller towns though, DA is best there. Before any holy rollers suggest just driving the limit, be careful before you throw stones.....

[pcgizzmo]

Well, here's what happened. I went in and plead "not guilty" the judge said OK wait for a bit and the prosecutor would talk with me.

She came in and asked me "What my beef was?" in a joking manner. I told her normally I do differed adjudication on my tickets and pay if I know I was speeding but this time I just was not. I even offered to let her look me up on their system because I was sure there were a ticket or two on there. I tried to get into radar specifics and tracking etc.. but that went no where with her. Then I pulled out the video from the cruiser I got from the police station and showed it to her on my Ipad. She said "Well, if I were on a jury if I saw this video I don't know if I could tell you were guilty beyond a shadow of doubt so I'm dismissing it".

That was good enough for me. I said "thank you for taking the time to listen to me" and walked out. I'm a pretty happy camper right now.

Just thought I would post an update.

Congrats on the win!

What were the steps you had to take to request the video?

I assume the cop was filming BEFORE the traffic stop took place. Is this common? Are their cameras always recording? I was under the impression that they didn't turn on until physically activated by the officer or automatically when lights are activated.

Anyone know?

Thanks, I just went to the PD and asked if I could get a video from my ticket. They said sure and I filled out a request form and paid $5 and three days later they called me to come get it. They were really nice about it.

The PD that gave me the ticket basically have DVR's in their cars. They are always recording but when they do whatever action it is that needs recording it basically places a marker 30 seconds back and that recording is kept on the DVR.

[jimlongley]

Interesting experience the other day, which may bear on this some.

The local police have set up one of their radar trailers on a street near my home. When I come out of the alley and turn on to the street, the radar registers 11 or 12 mph, and then I speed up to 29 mph and head down the block. One day last week a car was coming down the street the other direction and as we approached each other, the radar registered 55 mph for a period of time as the vehicles approached each other, and then dropped to 29 mph as we passed each other and I became the sole target. I suspect that what the radar was seeing was a double bounce, off my car and his, adding the two speeds.

[kjolly]

I've heard they may be prone to dismiss if you request a jury trial. If its a revune gathering purpose the trial could cost more than the ticket.

[XnTx]

I once got out of a ticket by challenging the officer's "radar" when I told him my detector never picked him up. He said those little $30 wal-mart detectors don't pick up crap. I said no, but my $400 valentine one picks up everything. He took my info and came back and told me to slow it down son. Normally I take my medicine, but this was at the end of a long trip with a bad case of road rash. I wasn't in the mood...