Approached By A Stranger While Pumping Gas

[RoyGBiv]

Great food for thought... Thanks.!

Might be good to find a place to practice this gas station scenario and do some training.

[Boma]

Same thing happened to me when i was a stupid teenager. I idiotically offered the guy a ride and he took me all over Tyler (from Wal-mart) and i think he bought drugs and went to different houses saying no one was home. I was so Dumb!!! I regret that everyday and realize that the Good Lord was watching out for me and keeping me safe that evening. But yeah, good call on not picking him up

I was in Austin and almost gave into the same thing. Glad you're alright!

I was approached at the gas station for money or to pander fake cologne for $20. I reached in my pocket one time after finally getting a CHL, and told him no and he gave me this ugly smirk and moved on.

@#$! those beggars, harassers, etc.! I've been approached by like 8-10 blacks and a hispanic or white maybe twice.

[Jumping Frog]

Even an unarmed street thug can attack and kill or disable a person before the defender could draw and fire, and gunfights at bad breath distance often don't have any winners - only degrees of losers.

I have no problem with a street thug thinking I am a jerk for holding my hand up and telling him to stop.

[jocat54]

The gas pump could be very interesting if you hose down the BG with fuel.

[Purplehood]

In early July I was in Winston Salem, NC. Long story short, I was downtown, on Saturday evening (before sunset) and was nearly out of gas. Below "E" on the rental car. No excuse. I should have known better.

I pull into a gas station right near my highway entrance and start pumping gas. It's a typical inner city area. 4 other cars in the station, 2 at pumps and 2 at the convenience store. I'm busy watching around the station, my back is to the car. After about a half tank I spot two guys to my left, across the street, looking at me and taking to each other. Maybe 50 yards away.

The two guys start walking towards me. I stopped pumping gas, hung up the hose and closed my gas cap. Relaxed attitude, but not wasting time, less than 10 seconds. The two guys split up. One walked over behind the pump I was using and the other was headed straight for me. I turned my strong side to the car. The guy walks between me and the pump (Imagine yourself standing at the gas pump. How much room is there between you, your car and the pump? Would you ever think about waking between someone else's car and the pump? ) stops just past me and just looks at me. I stared back and could feel my heart pumping. The guy says "Hey Man"... I said "How's it goin'?" He took maybe a 1 second pause and as he walked on I got in my car and drove away.

I guess they were just trying to have some fun with me.
Thankfully, NC and TX are reciprocal states.

Lesson 1: Never drive with less than a 1/4 tank of gas.
Lesson 2: Always carry.

Consider lesson 3: Challenge and move if necessary before letting someone get within bad breath range where your options are severely limited if his intentions aren't good.

I've thought about this "lesson 3" a lot since it happened.
A potential aggressor is approaching, but I have no idea how things will unfold.
Am I about to become the target of a robbery or violence?
How do I act to dissuade the potential aggressor without "appearing like I'm looking to escalate" or "giving the aggressor reason to escalate"?

Here's what went through my head at the time....

I'm armed, witnesses around, daylight, in the open.
I can fight, I can run, I can stand my ground and prepare. But, if I begin to take obvious action to avoid some confrontation, the situation is more likely to escalate. If the potential aggressor is just "feeling me out", any obvious avoidance or aggressive action on my part will give him an immediate reason to go to the next step.... Like a child, but more dangerous. My immediate reaction was to button up the gas situation and prepare to leave the area, but, maybe the live gas pump could have been a good weapon if needed? Too much downside there I thought...

If he was intending to just have some fun and "scare the white guy", as I suspect was the case, in hindsight.... Then if I would move away from the car, or put my hands up defensively, or call him out verbally or some combination of available options, his reaction, on his turf, would almost certainly have been to "escalate the fun".... Maybe call his friend over for support.

If he was intending felony, I was ready. 6 protected, weapon ready with strong side away from the aggressor, escape routes available (I would have moved towards the convenience store).....

My gut said be ready but don't act. Turned out ok, but I think about how it could have gone otherwise.

Is taking a more aggressive response to this situation a better deterrent?...... I just didn't think so at the time.
Given the setting, I had a clear feeling that he was feeling me out, but I was ready if I was wrong.
When I looked into his eyes and didn't cower, his fun was over.

I'm certainly open to suggestions.... How else to learn?

Thanks.

During the entire approach phase, BG's are watching you closely to figure out if you'll be a good (compliant) victim or not. They capitalize on the reluctance most folks have to recognizing a threat and taking direct action to close the distance to a point where the victim is in a very poor position to resist.

Most will break off with either direct eye contact combined with a ready posture at distance, or a verbal / hand signal challenge at around 30 feet (e.g., "I don't know you. Stop there and state your business") when eye contact doesn't work. If they don't heed a direct challenge, this gives you good reason to believe that a threat is developing while there is still time to take evasive or defensive action, and it sets the stage in the minds of witnesses for who might be the good guy and the bad guy if things develop further. If the "stop" hand signal gesture is used, it also provides visual evidence that you attempted to avoid a confrontation by preserving distance and the BG persisted in closing with you, giving you good reason to believe he presented a threat. This may well be a point in your favor if direct action needs to be taken. Direct action also isn't the only option. Buttoning up the car and walking into the store may also be a viable option to avoid a direct confrontation, and removes you from the setting a potential attacker saw as favorable to him, but this decision has to be made early enough to make it practical.

Don't feel too safe just because you're armed. If you let him get within arms reach, being armed is not nearly the advantage it is further out. Even an unarmed street thug can attack and kill or disable a person before the defender could draw and fire, and gunfights at bad breath distance often don't have any winners - only degrees of losers.

I agree in general, but the problem I see with this whole situation is defining what it is that made you fear for your life/safety. Just because a guy violates your personal space while apparently unarmed and continues past you, does not justify in and of itself any form of reprisal or defensive action against him.

Especially if you are in a neighborhood where you might be perceived as the outsider and witnesses may support the assertion that the guys were just walking by you.

The ONLY option I see (and forgive me if I have overlooked your having already covered it), is to retreat prior to the distance being closed. Standing your ground against a possible perceived threat that demonstrates no overt signs of that threat seems like a losing proposition from a Grand Jury point-of-view.

The idea of CHALLENGING an oncoming individual can also be perceived as a simple act of provocation. Of course simply moving from your existing position to another more defensible one and then challenging when the individual changes his course to continue coming straight at you, would in my book, be considered a good course of action.

[Excaliber]

In early July I was in Winston Salem, NC. Long story short, I was downtown, on Saturday evening (before sunset) and was nearly out of gas. Below "E" on the rental car. No excuse. I should have known better.

I pull into a gas station right near my highway entrance and start pumping gas. It's a typical inner city area. 4 other cars in the station, 2 at pumps and 2 at the convenience store. I'm busy watching around the station, my back is to the car. After about a half tank I spot two guys to my left, across the street, looking at me and taking to each other. Maybe 50 yards away.

The two guys start walking towards me. I stopped pumping gas, hung up the hose and closed my gas cap. Relaxed attitude, but not wasting time, less than 10 seconds. The two guys split up. One walked over behind the pump I was using and the other was headed straight for me. I turned my strong side to the car. The guy walks between me and the pump (Imagine yourself standing at the gas pump. How much room is there between you, your car and the pump? Would you ever think about waking between someone else's car and the pump? ) stops just past me and just looks at me. I stared back and could feel my heart pumping. The guy says "Hey Man"... I said "How's it goin'?" He took maybe a 1 second pause and as he walked on I got in my car and drove away.

I guess they were just trying to have some fun with me.
Thankfully, NC and TX are reciprocal states.

Lesson 1: Never drive with less than a 1/4 tank of gas.
Lesson 2: Always carry.

Consider lesson 3: Challenge and move if necessary before letting someone get within bad breath range where your options are severely limited if his intentions aren't good.

I've thought about this "lesson 3" a lot since it happened.
A potential aggressor is approaching, but I have no idea how things will unfold.
Am I about to become the target of a robbery or violence?
How do I act to dissuade the potential aggressor without "appearing like I'm looking to escalate" or "giving the aggressor reason to escalate"?

Here's what went through my head at the time....

I'm armed, witnesses around, daylight, in the open.
I can fight, I can run, I can stand my ground and prepare. But, if I begin to take obvious action to avoid some confrontation, the situation is more likely to escalate. If the potential aggressor is just "feeling me out", any obvious avoidance or aggressive action on my part will give him an immediate reason to go to the next step.... Like a child, but more dangerous. My immediate reaction was to button up the gas situation and prepare to leave the area, but, maybe the live gas pump could have been a good weapon if needed? Too much downside there I thought...

If he was intending to just have some fun and "scare the white guy", as I suspect was the case, in hindsight.... Then if I would move away from the car, or put my hands up defensively, or call him out verbally or some combination of available options, his reaction, on his turf, would almost certainly have been to "escalate the fun".... Maybe call his friend over for support.

If he was intending felony, I was ready. 6 protected, weapon ready with strong side away from the aggressor, escape routes available (I would have moved towards the convenience store).....

My gut said be ready but don't act. Turned out ok, but I think about how it could have gone otherwise.

Is taking a more aggressive response to this situation a better deterrent?...... I just didn't think so at the time.
Given the setting, I had a clear feeling that he was feeling me out, but I was ready if I was wrong.
When I looked into his eyes and didn't cower, his fun was over.

I'm certainly open to suggestions.... How else to learn?

Thanks.

During the entire approach phase, BG's are watching you closely to figure out if you'll be a good (compliant) victim or not. They capitalize on the reluctance most folks have to recognizing a threat and taking direct action to close the distance to a point where the victim is in a very poor position to resist.

Most will break off with either direct eye contact combined with a ready posture at distance, or a verbal / hand signal challenge at around 30 feet (e.g., "I don't know you. Stop there and state your business") when eye contact doesn't work. If they don't heed a direct challenge, this gives you good reason to believe that a threat is developing while there is still time to take evasive or defensive action, and it sets the stage in the minds of witnesses for who might be the good guy and the bad guy if things develop further. If the "stop" hand signal gesture is used, it also provides visual evidence that you attempted to avoid a confrontation by preserving distance and the BG persisted in closing with you, giving you good reason to believe he presented a threat. This may well be a point in your favor if direct action needs to be taken. Direct action also isn't the only option. Buttoning up the car and walking into the store may also be a viable option to avoid a direct confrontation, and removes you from the setting a potential attacker saw as favorable to him, but this decision has to be made early enough to make it practical.

Don't feel too safe just because you're armed. If you let him get within arms reach, being armed is not nearly the advantage it is further out. Even an unarmed street thug can attack and kill or disable a person before the defender could draw and fire, and gunfights at bad breath distance often don't have any winners - only degrees of losers.

I agree in general, but the problem I see with this whole situation is defining what it is that made you fear for your life/safety. Just because a guy violates your personal space while apparently unarmed and continues past you, does not justify in and of itself any form of reprisal or defensive action against him.

Especially if you are in a neighborhood where you might be perceived as the outsider and witnesses may support the assertion that the guys were just walking by you.

The ONLY option I see (and forgive me if I have overlooked your having already covered it), is to retreat prior to the distance being closed. Standing your ground against a possible perceived threat that demonstrates no overt signs of that threat seems like a losing proposition from a Grand Jury point-of-view.

The idea of CHALLENGING an oncoming individual can also be perceived as a simple act of provocation. Of course simply moving from your existing position to another more defensible one and then challenging when the individual changes his course to continue coming straight at you, would in my book, be considered a good course of action.

I think my suggestion to button up the car and walk into the store before distance was closed would meet the concept of "retreat."

I disagree that a challenge to a person walking directly toward you with his attention focused on you in a situation like a gas station would constitute unwarranted provocation. Standing alongside my vehicle pumping gas is a solo activity, and I don't need any help. It's not at all similar to passing on a sidewalk, and anyone approaching with a legitimate intent (e.g. to ask directions) would respond to a challenge with a verbalization of what he wants and give me the opportunity to accept or decline his approach. If he fails to do so, that fact becomes a factor in the reasonableness of your assessment that a threat is developing.

If you let people walk right up to you under circumstances like this, you'll get to find out for sure who had nefarious intent under circumstances when you'll have very few avoidance or defensive options available.

The law requires you to act reasonably under the circumstances you find yourself in. It does not require you to ignore the obvious and become a victim.

[Purplehood]

I do challenge them (and have). I am playing the devils advocate here.

[Excaliber]

I do challenge them (and have). I am playing the devils advocate here.

I'm not sure that is helpful to furthering the discussion and may well be confusing to some of our newer members.

[Purplehood]

I do challenge them (and have). I am playing the devils advocate here.

I'm not sure that is helpful to furthering the discussion and may well be confusing to some of our newer members.

Sometimes I confuse myself. Oh well!