Border Patrol Check Point Outside El Paso

[gigag04]

Other than wasting my time not too bad.

and completely violating your 4th Amendment rights.

Shame this is going on but glad to hear they were at least polite; I am sure the Nazi's were at first as well.

This is rediculous. Read up on search and siezure case law before comparing BP agents that get shot at from Mexican cartels to Nazis. This comparison is uneducated, baseless, and unnecessary. I'd go on to explain why the search was legal, but I don't think it would matter much.

[Oldgringo]

Other than wasting my time not too bad.

and completely violating your 4th Amendment rights.

Shame this is going on but glad to hear they were at least polite; I am sure the Nazi's were at first as well.

This is rediculous. Read up on search and siezure case law before comparing BP agents that get shot at from Mexican cartels to Nazis. This comparison is uneducated, baseless, and unnecessary. I'd go on to explain why the search was legal, but I don't think it would matter much.

and also have to marvel at the bow wave of constitutional experts on this forum of late.

[steveincowtown]

Other than wasting my time not too bad.

and completely violating your 4th Amendment rights.

Shame this is going on but glad to hear they were at least polite; I am sure the Nazi's were at first as well.

This is rediculous. Read up on search and siezure case law before comparing BP agents that get shot at from Mexican cartels to Nazis. This comparison is uneducated, baseless, and unnecessary. I'd go on to explain why the search was legal, but I don't think it would matter much.

Not intended as a dig at LEO or other. Can we at least agree that as an American, I have the right to say no to a warrantless search of my home, car, etc? Or is that too much?

PS. I am well educated, earn a good living, and can read...the Constitution.

[Keith B]

OK folks, no generalized LEO bashing. Watch your step.

[gigag04]

Can we at least agree that as an American, I have the right to say no to a warrantless search of my home, car, etc?

No - we cannot agree. Read up on the legal concepts of exigent circumstances and probable case to find why. The YouTube legal experts offer legal advice that is worth what it costs.

[speedsix]

...only things I find to question about the encounter is 1) did they really ask you if you had any illegals in your vehicle and 2) I see no need for them to handle/clear your handgun and leave it unloaded...unless they ran the serial number...I'm not comfortable around cops handling weapons they haven't been trained on...seen too many mess up doing it...but they do have the right...

[steveincowtown]

Can we at least agree that as an American, I have the right to say no to a warrantless search of my home, car, etc?

No - we cannot agree. Read up on the legal concepts of exigent circumstances and probable case to find why. The YouTube legal experts offer legal advice that is worth what it costs.

I get the probale cause with the dog but what eminent threat exsist to BP agents away from the border that required the immediate execution of a warrantless search?

Anyone who chooses to open up their car or home to search is welcome to do so. I will not.

[smtimelevi]

...only things I find to question about the encounter is 1) did they really ask you if you had any illegals in your vehicle and 2) I see no need for them to handle/clear your handgun and leave it unloaded...unless they ran the serial number...I'm not comfortable around cops handling weapons they haven't been trained on...seen too many mess up doing it...but they do have the right...

Yes they did but it seemed more like automated speech. Just once when i rolled up to the first agent. It was obvious there wasnt in my vehicle but they didn't repeatedly ask about it like they did about marijuana. One bp agent said " You know weed is illegal here in Texas. It's not like California where you can get a RX. You cant bring that stuff into Texas. Do you smoke it? "

[gigag04]

Can we at least agree that as an American, I have the right to say no to a warrantless search of my home, car, etc?

No - we cannot agree. Read up on the legal concepts of exigent circumstances and probable case to find why. The YouTube legal experts offer legal advice that is worth what it costs.

I get the probale cause with the dog but what eminent threat exsist to BP agents away from the border that required the immediate execution of a warrantless search?

Anyone who chooses to open up their car or home to search is welcome to do so. I will not.

If PC exists, a car may be searched without warrant. The exigent circumstance is that it is moveable.

If a SW is to be obtained for the residence, the (case) law permits a protective sweep to empty and secure the house, and everyone sits outside while an officer obtains the warrant. Evidence observed during the sweep is admissible into the SW and used to build PC.

[sjfcontrol]

Can we at least agree that as an American, I have the right to say no to a warrantless search of my home, car, etc?

No - we cannot agree. Read up on the legal concepts of exigent circumstances and probable case to find why. The YouTube legal experts offer legal advice that is worth what it costs.

I get the probale cause with the dog but what eminent threat exsist to BP agents away from the border that required the immediate execution of a warrantless search?

Anyone who chooses to open up their car or home to search is welcome to do so. I will not.

If PC exists, a car may be searched without warrant. The exigent circumstance is that it is moveable.

If a SW is to be obtained for the residence, the (case) law permits a protective sweep to empty and secure the house, and everyone sits outside while an officer obtains the warrant. Evidence observed during the sweep is admissible into the SW and used to build PC.

Why couldn't the same thing be done with a vehicle that is done with a house?

[RPB]

Maybe they were looking for chairs viewtopic.php?f=83&t=48173" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[OldCannon]

Seems to me like you _can_ play the rights game, and they _can_ play the PC game. If you want to make a big deal about it, I'm sure they'll let you go on your way....after several long hours. I also don't doubt there's a federal judge on 24 hr call who will gladly grant them a warrant on grounds of you being a potential terrorist or drug smuggler.

Then you get the Full Monty.

[fulano]

Wasnt sure what kinda authority they had as border patrol with the check point. I Remember reading something that they can only search your vehicle on the way in the country but there was some bull clause that they had authority to stop and search you on probable cause within 100 mi of the border. ......

I think they can do what they want. I don't think these guys read the constitution for recreation. They just have a job to do.

I lived in Orange County in the early 90's and went into Mexico many many times to enjoy 4X4ing the back roads south of Ensenada. When I returned, usually late sunday evenings, there was often a manned check point north of San Diego on the I5 where every vehicle was stopped, questions were asked as to where you had been and where you were coming from, etc, and a flashlight inspection was always made. I had a Jeep Cherokee and If there was anything covered in the back I had to get out and remove it so they could see. Often cars were being totally searched; I never got that treatment. It was Border Patrol & CHP. That was nearly 20 years ago when Mexico was very laid back and hardly any border problems.

I can't imagine what that experience would be like today.

[sjfcontrol]

Wasnt sure what kinda authority they had as border patrol with the check point. I Remember reading something that they can only search your vehicle on the way in the country but there was some bull clause that they had authority to stop and search you on probable cause within 100 mi of the border. ......

I think they can do what they want. I don't think these guys read the constitution for recreation. They just have a job to do.

I lived in Orange County in the early 90's and went into Mexico many many times to enjoy 4X4ing the back roads south of Ensenada. When I returned, usually late sunday evenings, there was often a manned check point north of San Diego on the I5 where every vehicle was stopped, questions were asked as to where you had been and where you were coming from, etc, and a flashlight inspection was always made. I had a Jeep Cherokee and If there was anything covered in the back I had to get out and remove it so they could see. Often cars were being totally searched; I never got that treatment. It was Border Patrol & CHP. That was nearly 20 years ago when Mexico was very laid back and hardly any border problems.

I can't imagine what that experience would be like today.

As of 7 or 8 years ago, when that checkpoint was open, they would typically just wave you through (at least if you didn't look foreign). Haven't been back recently.

[fulano]

Wasnt sure what kinda authority they had as border patrol with the check point. I Remember reading something that they can only search your vehicle on the way in the country but there was some bull clause that they had authority to stop and search you on probable cause within 100 mi of the border. ......

I think they can do what they want. I don't think these guys read the constitution for recreation. They just have a job to do.

I lived in Orange County in the early 90's and went into Mexico many many times to enjoy 4X4ing the back roads south of Ensenada. When I returned, usually late sunday evenings, there was often a manned check point north of San Diego on the I5 where every vehicle was stopped, questions were asked as to where you had been and where you were coming from, etc, and a flashlight inspection was always made. I had a Jeep Cherokee and If there was anything covered in the back I had to get out and remove it so they could see. Often cars were being totally searched; I never got that treatment. It was Border Patrol & CHP. That was nearly 20 years ago when Mexico was very laid back and hardly any border problems.

I can't imagine what that experience would be like today.

As of 7 or 8 years ago, when that checkpoint was open, they would typically just wave you through (at least if you didn't look foreign). Haven't been back recently.

I nearly always went through at night. Usually after 10pm as I was returning from a weekend. I'd say it was active 8 out of 10 times. I can't remember how far north of San Diego it was but seems like it was several miles in an open part of the countryside (open for S. Cal).