Interesting sign prohibiting handgunsfound, your thoughts...

[TexasGuy]

Went to Texas City and found this sign.

1) It is a law office, so they should know law
2) They state that Texas City prohibits by local ordinance
3) Should it say "on these premises" ?
4) So, can this city ordinance be like state 30.60 ?

[GeekwithaGun]

My understanding is that State law prohibits local ordinances from regulating the carrying of a handgun - they must post a 30.06 or give verbal or written notice.

[fishman]

Walk right in.

[RPB]

Walk right in.

Correct, that doesn't prohibit "firearms", only "fire arms"; I assume due to a burn ban/drought

[schufflerbot]

Walk right in.

Correct, that doesn't prohibit "firearms", only "fire arms"; I assume due to a burn ban/drought

LOL

they regulate their premis.

[RPB]

Walk right in.

Correct, that doesn't prohibit "firearms", only "fire arms"; I assume due to a burn ban/drought

LOL

they regulate their premis.

no-smoking ordinance

[AEA]

Do they actually get any business with that display of their ignorance on their front door?

[RPB]

Sigh

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx? ... ntid=10119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 82-4. - Firearms prohibited in parks.

(a)

It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a certified peace officer, to carry a firearm in any city park, regardless of whether or not the person is duly licensed by the state to carry a concealed handgun.

Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as provided in section 1-7

(Ord. No. 95-21, § 2(24-4), 12-6-95)

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx? ... ntid=10119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 78-81. - Carrying firearm on premises owned by city.

(a)

Definitions. As used in this section, the following words and terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them in this subsection:

(1)

City building means any building or portion of a building owned, occupied, leased or controlled by the city for city operations and/or activities. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage or other parking area.

(2)

Handgun means any firearm that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one hand. The term "concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

(3)

Gun, pistol, rifle and firearm include all percussion weapons, and also include all air guns, air pistols, air rifles, and all other firearms using air pressure to propel a projectile.

(b)

Firearms prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a certified peace officer, to carry a firearm in any city building or in any city park, regardless of whether or not the person is duly licensed by the state to carry a concealed handgun.

(c)

Exceptions. This section shall not be construed to prohibit any officer of the law from discharging a firearm in the performance of his duty, or to prohibit any citizen from discharging a firearm when lawfully defending person or property.

(d)

Penalty. Any person violating any provision of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $2,000.00.

Looks like their mayor, city council, City Atty, city secretary, police chief, etc etc etc need a form letter http://www.texas-city-tx.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=188&p=581186&hilit= ... er#p581186" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Running Arrow Bill]

I sure as hell wouldn't want them to represent me in Court. Between not aware of the "law" and not able to "spell"...lol.

[RPB]

To city (my form letter)

rplackemeier@texas-city-tx.org<rplackemeier@texas-city-tx.org>;mayor-tx@texas-city-tx.org<mayor-tx@texas-city-tx.org>;nfinan@texas-city-tx.org<nfinan@texas-city-tx.org>;mland@texas-city-tx.org<mland@texas-city-tx.org>dhaney@texas-city-tx.org<dhaney@texas-city-tx.org>dsingleton@texas-city-tx.org<dsingleton@texas-city-tx.org>jwilson@texas-city-tx.org<jwilson@texas-city-tx.org>dedrick.johnson@texas-city-tx.org<dedrick.johnson@texas-city-tx.org>dedrick.rwilkenfeld@texas-city-tx.org<dedrick.rwilkenfeld@texas-city-tx.org>chiefsoffice@texas-city-tx.org<chiefsoffice@texas-city-tx.org>


TO:
Mayor, Matthew T. Doyle
City Attorney, Ronald F. Plackemeier
City Secretary, Nicholas Finan
City Police Chief Robert Burby,
Each City Commissioner

I'm trying to save the City money and am concerned about the City currently violating a State law which could lead to a Federal Lawsuit which would be very expensive to defend.

Excluding Courts, most City owned (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings) are not allowed to prohibit concealed handgun carry licensees, reference to Texas Penal Code Section 46, specifically sections 46.02, 46.03, and 46.035 in the link below for your convenience.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Furthermore, Texas Penal Code 1.08 specifically prohibits municipal and County governments, including any subdivision or agency from enacting or enforcing laws governing conduct reserved for state law.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/PE.1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sec. 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed by this code is legally enforceable.

The State further asserts its sole authority to regulate concealed carry, superseding any municipal ordinance or law.

Local Government Code 229.001, specifically denies cities the right to regulate Concealed Handgun Licensees while granting cities the right to regulate some use of arms by unlicensed individuals, notice the "other than" language in the Statue below:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... LG.229.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sec. 229.001. FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a) A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearm supplies.

(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:

(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:
(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.

And lastly, government owned buildings such as the (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings, civic center) are specifically prohibited from banning the carrying of guns by CHL holders via the PC 30.06 trespassing statute (the only way that private businesses can ban CHL in Texas).

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#30.06" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Texas PC 30.06 (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

Since a "good faith" arrest can NOT be made for anything which is NOT illegal, I hope the officers, sheriffs, Constables are aware of the above, and trained/informed accordingly, so the Governments don't waste money due to a Federal §1983 civil rights lawsuit.


City Ordinances in question:
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx? ... ntid=10119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sec. 82-4. - Firearms prohibited in parks.

(a)

It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a certified peace officer, to carry a firearm in any city park, regardless of whether or not the person is duly licensed by the state to carry a concealed handgun.

Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as provided in section 1-7

(Ord. No. 95-21, § 2(24-4), 12-6-95)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sec. 78-81. - Carrying firearm on premises owned by city.

(a) Definitions. As used in this section, the following words and terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them in this subsection:

(1) City building means any building or portion of a building owned, occupied, leased or controlled by the city for city operations and/or activities. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage or other parking area.

(2) Handgun means any firearm that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one hand. The term "concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

(3) Gun, pistol, rifle and firearm include all percussion weapons, and also include all air guns, air pistols, air rifles, and all other firearms using air pressure to propel a projectile.

(b) Firearms prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a certified peace officer, to carry a firearm in any city building or in any city park, regardless of whether or not the person is duly licensed by the state to carry a concealed handgun.

(c) Exceptions. This section shall not be construed to prohibit any officer of the law from discharging a firearm in the performance of his duty, or to prohibit any citizen from discharging a firearm when lawfully defending person or property.

(d) Penalty. Any person violating any provision of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $2,000.00.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additionally, you may want to re-visit all other ordinances which might be in violation of State Law.


Signed a concerned City Taxpayer and voter.

So, now city was put on notice, in case anything happens, and perhaps the city will fix any crazy legally unenforceable ordinances

[TexasGuy]

I called the office, spoke with Mark. He told me that this was on the door when his business has moved in, he never took it down. He has no clue what city ordinance this message is about...

[RPB]

I called the office, spoke with Mark. He told me that this was on the door when his business has moved in, he never took it down. He has no clue what city ordinance this message is about...

oh well; maybe SOMEONE will get my e-mail and fix ordinances, perhaps while updating the old 1995 ordinances, they could update the city website

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

rplackemeier@texas-city-tx.org
mayor-tx@texas-city-tx.org
nfinan@texas-city-tx.org
mland@texas-city-tx.org
dhaney@texas-city-tx.org
dsingleton@texas-city-tx.org
jwilson@texas-city-tx.org
dedrick.johnson@texas-city-tx.org
dedrick.rwilkenfeld@texas-city-tx.org
chiefsoffice@texas-city-tx.org

[C-dub]

I'm convinced the lawyer that advises my company knows diddly squat about gun laws in Texas. Either that or he's pulled a fast one on my company.

[Thomas]

I called the office, spoke with Mark. He told me that this was on the door when his business has moved in, he never took it down. He has no clue what city ordinance this message is about...

If you're in the area, offer to remove the signage from the glass with a razor blade for free

[GhostTX]

I'd like to see what the city's response is.