[Pre-paid legal service]

[ELB]

I have been reading about this group that offers experts and attorney for self defense shootings for a yearly fee. Marty Hayes is the main guy and Massad Ayoob is one of the experts.

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A point of clarification: If I understand their literature correctly, they do NOT offer an ATTORNEY for your primary defense. (They do apparently offer $5,000 towards an attorney). What they do offer is expert (as in use of force, self-defense law, etc) advice and access to expert witnesses to your attorney. Marty Hayes, Ayoob, and John Farnam are some of the people available for this.

I noted one of their articles in this post http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... se#p449807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and if you read the article linked there, you will see that the guy on trial had his own lawyer, but the ACLDN provided advice and expert witnesses.

So ACLDN is not meant to replace your lawyer or [pre-paid legal], if you have it -- it is in addition to, or further resources for, your own attorney.

[Jasonw560]

IMHO, getting [pre-paid legal] is the equivalent of hiring a Paramedic to follow you around in case you are struck by lightning. Yes, it would be nice to have access to immediate care if your were struck, but the chance are so remote that the benefit outweighs the cost.

I'm a licensed paramedic, and I wouldn't follow people around for $10.95 a year.

[A-R]

Texas Concealed Handgun Association has a CHL "Protection Plan". I have only heard very good things about it even from my CHL instructor. I singed up for it. Check it out at their website. Very reasonable for 4 years of access to attorneys.

You should understand that your CHL instructor gets a commission for everyone he signs up for any of these "prepaid legal" plans.

Just saying.... take it all with a grain of salt.

Yesterday I received an unsolicited email from someone claiming to represent [Pre-paid legal service] (the sending email address ended with @[Pre-paid legal service].com , but I have no other way to verify authenticity). I remembered this thread from a while back and thought I would post the content of the unsolicited email sent to me so that other forum members may benefit from knowing the possible motitvations for some CHL Instructors to promote [pre-paid legal] and other similar programs.

I don't mean this as a way to throw [pre-paid legal] or CHL instructors who tout their services "under the bus". I just feel this email shines some needed sunlight on how these programs market their business to prospective new clients and the motivations of the folks who are marketing these programs. This is meant merely as a way to elaborate on what Crossfire posted earlier. [pre-paid legal] and others may well be very good programs and well worth the money, I honestly don't know. And these kinds of kickback deals are very common in a number of businesses (though I am happy to say that most of this stuff has been justifiably regulated out of the real estate industry - in my 4-year experience).

Anyway, just putting this out there:

Dear CHL Instructor,

I am the district manager with http://www.[Pre-paid legal service].com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I would like to invite you to take a minute to visit our web site and see what we are about. We are one of the first legal defense programs specific to gun owners. This program was developed by three Criminal Defense Lawyers (Walker, Rice and Wisdom P.C.) in Houston, TX. After seeing cases in the national media and local cases where the victims of a crime then become victims of the legal system, our lawyers saw a need for a comprehensive legal defense program. We have 2 programs available, one for CHL holders and one for non CHL holders, our CHL program can be offered to security officers commissioned or non, private security, body guards, and law enforcement (as long as they have a CHL as well). The Second program that we offer is called our Home Defense Program, this program can be offered to non CHL holders that keep weapons in their home or vehicle. Our main objective is to educate our member/clients on what to do after you use your firearm and provide answers to them from a legal stand point.

If you feel like this is a great program and you would like to be part of our growth please let me know. Some of the benefits for a CHL Instructor to promote our program along to their classes are, the instructor and staff will be given a membership to [Pre-paid legal service] free of charge, we will supply the instructor with all point of sale material (tri folds, DVD, banner) . The CHL Instructor will be compensated for their promotional time at $30 per member sign up generated from the instructor not limited to classes. As the district manager of this program my job is to make this program successful and provide our partners with all that they need to be successful as well. I am available to speak during CHL classes and provide you with all that you need to be successful. This is a great program and a great profit center.

Please contact me if you interested or have any questions... Tanks

[RoyGBiv]

So if I call them and offer them their fee minus $30, what do you think they'll say?... $151 - 30 = $120

[prometheus]

Why do I get the feeling they'd tell you to get bent just as G.E.I.C.O would tell me to get bent if I told them that I've already paid them the replacement cost of my car and I shouldn't have to pay any more premiums untill I get into an accident.... <2cents>

[burkdog]

I bought a membership from [pre-paid legal] last year, and have been doing a little research, trying to decide if I will renew.

I think I have decided to renew. I have tried to read through the fine print for other Self-Defense types of insurance, including those offered by the NRA, the USCCA, the Armed Citizens' Legal Degal Dfense Network, and maybe one or two others.

Like everything else associated with the USCCA, the marketing is way over the top, and because of that, I don't trust them.

The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network seems ok. They will give you up to 5K right off the bat, to get you our of jail on bail, start paying your lawyers, etc. Beyond that what they will pay seems kind of sketchy. They may award "grants" beyond that. I guess they also might not. It seems like you have to be acquitted of ALL charges before they will pay anything else. So, if you cop to a minor charge to make it all go away, you are stuck with the bill, I guess.

All of these guys are in it to make money, that's clear, and they are not going to make money by providing a service that costs them more to provide than they collect.

[johnson0317]

I have [Pre-paid legal service], and I also have the CHLPP protection plan. The reason I have both is that the CHLPP will protect me in any state where the Texas CHL is recognized. Law Shield does not help you outside of the state. I have found the [Pre-paid legal service] people to be very helpful and quick in responding. It took me forever to get CHLPP to even recognize I had signed up, and even longer to get the card in the mail. I had to email twice and call once. This concerns me because, if I need them, I don't want to have to sit in jail for days before someone shows up.

USCAA. I am a member, but probably won't sign up again. This has been nothing more than a webmarketing schtick for him and there are YouTube interviews with him, regarding the webmarketing company he works with, about how he lucked in to the whole gun craze. He also has tried to market his brother and father through his site. I get sick and tired of the ads. Their new plan does not provide a lawyer, only money to help pay for one...and your yearly dues will almost triple. Pretty good deal for them since most CHL holders are pretty upright citizens. I would rather have a plan where they will answer the 1-800 number, and send a lawyer.

Besides, someone can set me straight, but I think Tim Schmidt lives in Wisconsin...kind of a strange place to live, and to run a concealed carry association.

[TexasAggie]

If it's a retainer, then I would be on the hook for anything more than the $120 annual fee.

If it's not a retainer, and the [pre-paid legal] attorneys keep calling it a retainer, I'm pretty sure I don't want them as my attorneys.

[ddg]

Did not see the post that I previously submitted so I am posting this again......


Is there anyone on this forum that has actually had to "make the call" to [Pre-paid legal service]?

They have active cases right now I am told and I would very much like to hear from someone actually going through this process now or has done so in the past year. That is more credible to me than marketing literature or "potential coverage" language.
If this needs to be an offline conversation since everything is discoverable these days, that's fine too.

Thanks.

[Tx_XDm]

Lets compile a list of specific questions to ask [pre-paid legal] and maybe one of our Houston brothers can stop in for a face to face. Following questions posed as per Charles L. Cotton in the other thread. Quote this post and add your questions to the list.

1. What is covered ?
2. What is not covered?
3. will any additional monies be owed if I have to use the service?
4. What is the experience of the attorney(s) who will represent you at what may well be the worst time and worst problem of your life?

[RoyGBiv]

If I am a company such as [pre-paid legal] or CHLPP or _______, what I would very likely be doing is signing up with Lloyds or a similar re-insurer for a policy that covers my expenses should any of end customers actually use the policy I sold them....

Ex: 2000 of you CHL Forum folks buy my "Legal Insurance" plan for $150. I collect $300K. I have a policy with Lloyds that covers my expenses should any of my 2000 "customers" require coverage under the plan they bought from me. For this insurance I pay Lloyds $200K/year. My profit is $100K less operating costs (office, phone, marketing, etc)

Of course Lloyds costs will change based on the number of policies I sell and the experience/claims I have from my customer over time, but, when I read about this type of "insurance", I assume this is how it works behind the scenes. It's up to the plan ([pre-paid legal] for example) and the re-insurer to work out the detailed coverages and pricing.

I have NO IDEA if this is actually correct.... Just my assumption.