Churches having to hire police to watch during services

[wgoforth]

This is in Abilene.
http://www.ktxs.com/news/28886028/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Keith B]

We have had this problem before, especially during Easter and Christmas services where there are a lot of additional people you may not recognize. And, we have uniformed officers on site directing traffic and in the building during services, but they can't be everywhere at once.

Ladies have a tendency to leave their purse in the choir room or Sunday School classroom while they go attend to other things in the church and they are prime targets to just pick up walk out with.

[TrueFlog]

And, we have uniformed officers on site directing traffic and in the building during services, but they can't be everywhere at once.

The same is true of our church in Frisco, plus our pastor and his wife have plainclothes escorts with them at all times. Rumor has it that the pulpit is lined on the inside with a bulletproof material so that the pastor can hide behind it in the event of a shooting.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of our associate pastors one morning. I serve as an usher, and he and I were chatting in the foyer one morning before the service. A woman came up to him and handed him a set of what appeared to putty (or some kind of arts-and-crafts) knives, then asked him to give them to his wife. (It was obvious they knew each other and that he was expecting the knives.) Anyway, the associate pastor made a joke about being in trouble since he had knives at church and the ushers (referring to me) knew about it. I just laughed and thought to myself, "I've got a lot more than a knife under this jacket!" He then told us a story about how a few years back one of the ushers who had CHL was carrying during the church service. He said they had to pull him aside, have the police check him out, verify his license, ask why he had a gun, etc. The way the pastor told the story, he just seemed so incredulous that a civilian would carry at church, and emphasized that fact the the usher was "not just in the foyer, but actually in the sanctuary!" I was at the same time amused and very anxious. I was amused because little did he know that I carry every week. I was anxious because I was afraid he was going to add something like, "We had to explain to the usher that we don't allow guns in the sanctuary" or, "After that, the church adopted a rule to prohibit guns from our buildings." I was looking for any chance to change the subject or excuse myself from the conversation lest he should accidentally give me oral notice!

[Teamless]

lest he should accidentally give me oral notice!

If he were to say "We had to explain to the usher that we don't allow guns in the sanctuary" or, "After that, the church adopted a rule to prohibit guns from our buildings."
neither are oral notice to you, as he was talking anecdotal, not informing you, at least that is how I would have taken it.

Remember that "adopting a rule......." is not notice, unless he verbally stated that "you are not allowed to carry here", unless they actually had the 30.06 wording in a manual that you were required to read, much like an employee has to have at work where it is not allowed, or they have to post the fully official 30.06 sign, in size, contract, and languages.

[longtooth]

There are several here that have LEO reglar.

[C-dub]

lest he should accidentally give me oral notice!

If he were to say "We had to explain to the usher that we don't allow guns in the sanctuary" or, "After that, the church adopted a rule to prohibit guns from our buildings."
neither are oral notice to you, as he was talking anecdotal, not informing you, at least that is how I would have taken it.

Remember that "adopting a rule......." is not notice, unless he verbally stated that "you are not allowed to carry here", unless they actually had the 30.06 wording in a manual that you were required to read, much like an employee has to have at work where it is not allowed, or they have to post the fully official 30.06 sign, in size, contract, and languages.

Yes, but he did say the red parts. Isn't that notice? I would have taken that as notice.

[RPB]

My cousin Pastors a church in Abilene which isn't listed in the article, but they don't need to hire police.
Last time I went, I know I was armed, and 2 off-duty DPS officers (one was another cousin) and 3 other cousins and no telling how many other non-relatives.

[wgoforth]

lest he should accidentally give me oral notice!

If he were to say "We had to explain to the usher that we don't allow guns in the sanctuary" or, "After that, the church adopted a rule to prohibit guns from our buildings."
neither are oral notice to you, as he was talking anecdotal, not informing you, at least that is how I would have taken it.

Remember that "adopting a rule......." is not notice, unless he verbally stated that "you are not allowed to carry here", unless they actually had the 30.06 wording in a manual that you were required to read, much like an employee has to have at work where it is not allowed, or they have to post the fully official 30.06 sign, in size, contract, and languages.

Yes, but he did say the red parts. Isn't that notice? I would have taken that as notice.

I would take it as notice...to go somewhere else. Are they going to take a policy about what color tie I can and can't wear next?

[paulhailes]

lest he should accidentally give me oral notice!

If he were to say "We had to explain to the usher that we don't allow guns in the sanctuary" or, "After that, the church adopted a rule to prohibit guns from our buildings."
neither are oral notice to you, as he was talking anecdotal, not informing you, at least that is how I would have taken it.

Remember that "adopting a rule......." is not notice, unless he verbally stated that "you are not allowed to carry here", unless they actually had the 30.06 wording in a manual that you were required to read, much like an employee has to have at work where it is not allowed, or they have to post the fully official 30.06 sign, in size, contract, and languages.

Yes, but he did say the red parts. Isn't that notice? I would have taken that as notice.

I would take it as notice...to go somewhere else. Are they going to take a policy about what color tie I can and can't wear next?

The OP doesn't actually say that the pastor said the red parts, just that he was worried the pastor might and the OP ended his story before he told us if he was successfully able to change the subject or if the pastor gave him notice.

[Oldgringo]

lest he should accidentally give me oral notice!

If he were to say "We had to explain to the usher that we don't allow guns in the sanctuary" or, "After that, the church adopted a rule to prohibit guns from our buildings."
neither are oral notice to you, as he was talking anecdotal, not informing you, at least that is how I would have taken it.

Remember that "adopting a rule......." is not notice, unless he verbally stated that "you are not allowed to carry here", unless they actually had the 30.06 wording in a manual that you were required to read, much like an employee has to have at work where it is not allowed, or they have to post the fully official 30.06 sign, in size, contract, and languages.

Yes, but he did say the red parts. Isn't that notice? I would have taken that as notice.

I would take it as notice...to go somewhere else. Are they going to take a policy about what color tie I can and can't wear next?

There it is! There is no shortage of churches, find one that fits.

[Keith B]

While it may not be official notice, you now know their feelings are anti-CHL and they are uncomfortable with people carrying in church. Only you can make the decision if that weighs heavily enough on your ties to the church to either move on to another congregation or to continue to carry and hope that nothing formal comes out of it.

Personally, I know that our overall denomination's doctrine doesn't like handguns, but, when I have probed Pastors about things in the doctrine I don't agree with, they have always stated 'It's up to the individual to decide if they follow that or not.' I even had one state there were things in there that they don't agree with and even disregard themselves. One told me that he considers it guidelines, and not rules, so I make my own choices on carrying or not as long as I am legal.

[C-dub]

lest he should accidentally give me oral notice!

If he were to say "We had to explain to the usher that we don't allow guns in the sanctuary" or, "After that, the church adopted a rule to prohibit guns from our buildings."
neither are oral notice to you, as he was talking anecdotal, not informing you, at least that is how I would have taken it.

Remember that "adopting a rule......." is not notice, unless he verbally stated that "you are not allowed to carry here", unless they actually had the 30.06 wording in a manual that you were required to read, much like an employee has to have at work where it is not allowed, or they have to post the fully official 30.06 sign, in size, contract, and languages.

Yes, but he did say the red parts. Isn't that notice? I would have taken that as notice.

Sorry everyone!

We need a backwards walking smiley so I can backtrack. After re-reading this thread thinking I might have missed something I found it. The parts I was basing my opinion that Trueflog had been given notice were incorrectly based on something Teamless speculated about. I would have considered the parts in red notice except that I didn't pay any attention to the beginning part of the sentence, now in blue.

[Wfahey]

This really is not surprising. I know of preachers in and around the San Antonio area that have hired body guards and off duty police officers for personal protection during services and transportation to/from the churches. Many of these churches have very elaborate security camera systems in place as well.

[v-rog]

Prisons do the same....

[Timbo55]

This really is not surprising. I know of preachers in and around the San Antonio area that have hired body guards and off duty police officers for personal protection during services and transportation to/from the churches. Many of these churches have very elaborate security camera systems in place as well.

When I got my CHL in June 2008 I spoke with our Pastor about packing during service. He thought about it, spoke with others and found that there were at least 20 of us with CHL. We met one Wed night and set a plan as to what service we would attend in two groups and where we would sit. Two were assigned door duty at the childrens building. We also discussed what everyone would do based on various situations with those with law enforcement background set the pace of reaction to a threat. Our hope is that the elaborare security camera systems will show how a threat was stopped.

Was not able to attend this seminar but hear it was very usefull.

http://www.cityofirving.org/police/pdfs/CSS_041710b.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would not attend a church that bans CHL. Not in these times.

Tim