Irving P.D.

[Keith B]

I won't cower in my house and watch someone rip me off

You think someone who makes the personal decision to stay inside and call 911 instead of going outside to confront a thief is a coward?

The decision to go out vs. stay in depends totally on the individual and the level of training. For Speedsix, Excalibur, Carlson and myself, even though we all have backgrounds in law enforcement, every situation should yield a different answer. For those who have not had formal training or a background in this, there should be more of a question of confronting someone like this.

IMO, it is best under many situations to stay inside. However, Carlson made the decision that under the circumstances he was faced with at the time, he was in a good position to prevent the theft of his truck without placing himself in a position of peril. Take a different night, different condition of the body (tired, sick, etc.), different lighting (moon/no moon), possibly more than one perp, yada yada and Carl's decision might have been different.

So, to blanket state you will go out and confront anyone in any situation is not IMO a wise choice. I will pick and choose my battles and only fight those that I feel are in my best interest to fight and have a good chance of winning.

[speedsix]

I won't cower in my house and watch someone rip me off

You think someone who makes the personal decision to stay inside and call 911 instead of going outside to confront a thief is a coward?

...you trying to start some trouble??? I said what I wouldn't do...and you want to twist that and make it a statement I didn't state??? You speak your mind and I'll speak mine...clearly...without any help, thank you, Sir!!!

[OldCannon]

Best darn anti-theft device you can get for your car: http://www.ravelco.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have one, works great.

[speedsix]

...first I've ever seen/heard of them...sound like a great improvement on a kill switch...often there is more dollar amount of damage done to get into the vehicle and try to start it than value of anything stolen from it...wish there was a way to keep that part from happening...

[OldCannon]

...first I've ever seen/heard of them...sound like a great improvement on a kill switch...often there is more dollar amount of damage done to get into the vehicle and try to start it than value of anything stolen from it...wish there was a way to keep that part from happening...

The CarFax report that says "Vandalized" is nowhere near as bad as one that says "Stolen". Worse still, most high-value cars that get stolen are never recovered, especially in border states.

[carlson1]

Best darn anti-theft device you can get for your car: http://www.ravelco.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have one, works great.

How hard was that to install, where did you buy it, and how much did it cost?
Thanks

[OldCannon]

Best darn anti-theft device you can get for your car: http://www.ravelco.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have one, works great.

How hard was that to install, where did you buy it, and how much did it cost?
Thanks

I believe it was $299, installed. It's definitely not a DIY thing, need an experienced installer (or at least somebody that knows more than how to change oil, like me )

[cheezit]

being in the car dealer industry for a very long time I have found to very good items that seem to work out. one was the ravelco system and the other is jimmy jammers. they may tear up the dorrs pretty bad befor they get in and if they do the odds of starting are slim.
also there have been a rash of f250/f350 sd trucks stolen around the mac aurther were the private lake is over the past 2 months or so.

[speedsix]

...first I've ever seen/heard of them...sound like a great improvement on a kill switch...often there is more dollar amount of damage done to get into the vehicle and try to start it than value of anything stolen from it...wish there was a way to keep that part from happening...

The CarFax report that says "Vandalized" is nowhere near as bad as one that says "Stolen". Worse still, most high-value cars that get stolen are never recovered, especially in border states.

...that saves me...my vehicle's just a tad below high-value...but I've seen 'em steal a truck or car just to get somewhere that they could take a toolbox out or a stereo...if they're gonna choose you...it's gonna hurt...even with insurance...with a good car worth stripping or selling, your gizmo would be a good investment...better'n a car alarm which nobody pays attention to...

[DEB]

...I agree..I won't cower in my house and watch someone rip me off...and waiting for the police is a laugh...even here, where we have a great response time, it's too late...if it's on my property...it's my business..and I will deal with it...life is full of risks...I've been a cop on night shift for many years...I never told a man who was willing and armed to stay in the house and wait for us to come handle it...I think it's a step in the wrong direction...and I won't take it...if the government can tell us not to deal with trespassers or thieves, it's a short step to telling us not to deal with home invaders or burglars...any one know how it is in old London these days??? it IS a personal choice...made many years ago, and no likelihood of changing anytime soon...you can stack what-ifs a mile high...if that's your choice...

Excellent statement, quick and to the point...

[DEB]

The decision to go out vs. stay in depends totally on the individual and the level of training. For Speedsix, Excalibur, Carlson and myself, even though we all have backgrounds in law enforcement, every situation should yield a different answer. For those who have not had formal training or a background in this, there should be more of a question of confronting someone like this.

IMO, it is best under many situations to stay inside. However, Carlson made the decision that under the circumstances he was faced with at the time, he was in a good position to prevent the theft of his truck without placing himself in a position of peril. Take a different night, different condition of the body (tired, sick, etc.), different lighting (moon/no moon), possibly more than one perp, yada yada and Carl's decision might have been different.

So, to blanket state you will go out and confront anyone in any situation is not IMO a wise choice. I will pick and choose my battles and only fight those that I feel are in my best interest to fight and have a good chance of winning.

I agree about one making a blanket statement that they would do this or that action, especially if you have never been exposed to danger before. But reading these experiences as well as stories of those involved in self-defensive actions does allow me, as I suppose others, to imagine and therefore react to certain situations. Even if one does not have L.E. or Military experience, one can win against impossible odds. I read almost weekly if not daily of individuals placed in life or death situations, that not only persevere but are also victorious in overcoming an adversity, even without that vaulted L.E. experience. This includes all genres. An old lady killing an individual who broke into her house, a man shooting an individual attempting to rob his girlfriend at gunpoint, and these are just two of the most recent acts I have read about. One could go on and on. While the only self-defense shooting I have read about from prior L.E., at least recently, is that individual who stopped that gunman after he ran amok in the neighborhood. By the way God bless him for his actions. This is not blasting L.E. or former L.E. it just is. I believe the reason these "untrained" individuals were able to succeed is that they previously thought out their actions that they would or could take in case of...Actually, I also believe that prior L.E. and Military Combat experience could be a liability of sorts in how one reacts to a possible threat, one has to think about this as well, perhaps directly attacking a threat wouldn't be the best answer. I intend to continue to read and play out possible scenarios, maybe then if the worse does come I also will be better prepared both legally and morally, don't know though.

[Keith B]

I agree about one making a blanket statement that they would do this or that action, especially if you have never been exposed to danger before. But reading these experiences as well as stories of those involved in self-defensive actions does allow me, as I suppose others, to imagine and therefore react to certain situations. Even if one does not have L.E. or Military experience, one can win against impossible odds. I read almost weekly if not daily of individuals placed in life or death situations, that not only persevere but are also victorious in overcoming an adversity, even without that vaulted L.E. experience. This includes all genres. An old lady killing an individual who broke into her house, a man shooting an individual attempting to rob his girlfriend at gunpoint, and these are just two of the most recent acts I have read about. One could go on and on. While the only self-defense shooting I have read about from prior L.E., at least recently, is that individual who stopped that gunman after he ran amok in the neighborhood. By the way God bless him for his actions. This is not blasting L.E. or former L.E. it just is. I believe the reason these "untrained" individuals were able to succeed is that they previously thought out their actions that they would or could take in case of...Actually, I also believe that prior L.E. and Military Combat experience could be a liability of sorts in how one reacts to a possible threat, one has to think about this as well, perhaps directly attacking a threat wouldn't be the best answer. I intend to continue to read and play out possible scenarios, maybe then if the worse does come I also will be better prepared both legally and morally, don't know though.

Noting wrong at all with running scenarios in your head; it is actually a good thing. And defending yourself when confronted with a life or death situation is the thing to do. Understanding how you would approach a confrontation in a location like your home, work or other place is important, and only you can make the decision on if you can handle it.

However, there is an old adage 'If you go looking for trouble, you will probably find it'. Many of these self defense situations you described were people who were in their homes and the bad guy(s) broke in and confronted them; they didn't go outside and confront the bad guy(s). Those are a totally different thing than going after a bad guy.

In Carlson's situation he had previous training, and had ran this scenario thorough multiple times in his head and knew his limitations and capabilities, so it was right FOR HIM. It may not be right for me or the next person. Many many factors involved in every different scenario.

Bottom line, know what you are capable of, plan and train for it as much as possible, and if you are confronted (God forbid) with one of the life or death times, then you can react as Carl did and stay safe while protecting your property and life.

[texanron]

I won't cower in my house and watch someone rip me off

You think someone who makes the personal decision to stay inside and call 911 instead of going outside to confront a thief is a coward?

...you trying to start some trouble??? I said what I wouldn't do...and you want to twist that and make it a statement I didn't state??? You speak your mind and I'll speak mine...clearly...without any help, thank you, Sir!!!

I'm not trying to start trouble. I was simply asking you a question about your use of the word "cower" to describe a action being performed during an event that could happen to anyone. Given your heated response it appears that this was a unreasonable request on my part.
You have a good day none the less.

[Excaliber]

The decision to go out vs. stay in depends totally on the individual and the level of training. For Speedsix, Excalibur, Carlson and myself, even though we all have backgrounds in law enforcement, every situation should yield a different answer. For those who have not had formal training or a background in this, there should be more of a question of confronting someone like this.

IMO, it is best under many situations to stay inside. However, Carlson made the decision that under the circumstances he was faced with at the time, he was in a good position to prevent the theft of his truck without placing himself in a position of peril. Take a different night, different condition of the body (tired, sick, etc.), different lighting (moon/no moon), possibly more than one perp, yada yada and Carl's decision might have been different.

So, to blanket state you will go out and confront anyone in any situation is not IMO a wise choice. I will pick and choose my battles and only fight those that I feel are in my best interest to fight and have a good chance of winning.

I agree about one making a blanket statement that they would do this or that action, especially if you have never been exposed to danger before. But reading these experiences as well as stories of those involved in self-defensive actions does allow me, as I suppose others, to imagine and therefore react to certain situations. Even if one does not have L.E. or Military experience, one can win against impossible odds. I read almost weekly if not daily of individuals placed in life or death situations, that not only persevere but are also victorious in overcoming an adversity, even without that vaulted L.E. experience. This includes all genres. An old lady killing an individual who broke into her house, a man shooting an individual attempting to rob his girlfriend at gunpoint, and these are just two of the most recent acts I have read about. One could go on and on. While the only self-defense shooting I have read about from prior L.E., at least recently, is that individual who stopped that gunman after he ran amok in the neighborhood. By the way God bless him for his actions. This is not blasting L.E. or former L.E. it just is. I believe the reason these "untrained" individuals were able to succeed is that they previously thought out their actions that they would or could take in case of...Actually, I also believe that prior L.E. and Military Combat experience could be a liability of sorts in how one reacts to a possible threat, one has to think about this as well, perhaps directly attacking a threat wouldn't be the best answer. I intend to continue to read and play out possible scenarios, maybe then if the worse does come I also will be better prepared both legally and morally, don't know though.

I'm at a loss to understand how experience in successfully managing the many challenges of multiple life threatening criminal encounters over time would put one at a judgment or performance disadvantage when compared to someone who has never done so at all.

That's a lot like saying we'd be better off with a president who has never run a business or served anywhere as an executive with profit and loss responsibility for anything.

How well that works out is on full display for all to see.

[DEB]

I'm at a loss to understand how experience in successfully managing the many challenges of multiple life threatening criminal encounters over time would put one at a judgment or performance disadvantage when compared to someone who has never done so at all.

That's a lot like saying we'd be better off with a president who has never run a business or served anywhere as an executive with profit and loss responsibility for anything.

How well that works out is on full display for all to see.

Perhaps I didn't cover it succintly enough, not the first time. As former L.E./Military often one will revert to previous training by getting involved in situations that one shouldn't or by immediatly going after the bad guy without processing one's current age or etc. I read where individuals complain about one person's actions and then give former L.E. a by, when they do pretty much the same thing. I mentioned on a previous post how one of my friends, former L.E., lit out after a bad guy, while unarmed, when said bad guy stole a women' s purse at a funeral home. When L.E. arrived much of their time was spent questioning him as they felt he could have been the bad guy. Another former Border Patrol Officer ran down the street during a drive by, while armed, and was himself arrested when current L.E. arrived. I have also seen where current/former military have involved themselves in situations where they could be considered the aggressor...We all get old whether we like it or not, move on to other occupations and etc. When one says former others often say ex-. Not knocking anyone, just trying to explain my thought process, however difficult that becomes, especially for me. I was also trying to convey that training, previous experiences degrade over time, without one continuing to be exposed to the stressors one had in a previous life. As far as a President's experience goes, that would have to be in another thread. I haven't been to overly impressed with many of those in my life time, especially our current. But, I am sure there are those that could persuasively argue that as well.