For once, a teacher is allowed to practice self defense

[Middle Age Russ]

Based on what the cell phone video showed, the male bad apple student was simply being a bully as others have stated. He used his size to his advantage as he encroached on her personal space, at which time the teacher victim had to retreat. Student continued to advance, despite warnings from the teacher to stop. The teacher's response was measured and effective against the student bully -- a few punches then stopping. Kudos to the teacher for delivering a clearly-needed lesson to the student bully.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want the word or job of "teacher" to be synonymous with "victim". If victims are teaching our kids, we can only expect our kids to polarize into victims and bullies too in fairly short order.

[A-R]

From what I see the boys hands never left his side. Is being a teenage butt(being nice) grounds fot getting punched? Now I don't think teachers should be defenseless but here it appears she punched in fear not because he touched her.

The simple test for justification is this: put yourself in her shoes.

Suppose you're a 64-year-old woman and a 17-year-old male nearly a foot taller than you does exactly what you see on the video: cursing, gesticulating, backing you into a corner, and closing distance so as to take away any reasonable "comfort zone" or "personal space".

Now suppose this happened not between a teacher and student in a classroom, but between a 64-year-old woman and a 17-year-old man at a shopping mall?

Would the woman then:

reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force

Now let's add in the egregious defiance of authority and say this same 17-year-old in same hypothetical shopping mall does the same thing to a 64-year-old female security guard, or to a police officer?

What would happen if that punk did the same thing to a cop?

And why should the schoolteacher be forced to react any more passively?

[The Annoyed Man]

Now that I am out of high school I think corporal punishment should be reinstated in all schools, the feeling of the paddle on bare flesh would be a great deterrent to some of the smart mouthed delinquents that seem to populate the halls of our schools.

How did you feel about it when you were IN high school?

[Keith B]

Now that I am out of high school I think corporal punishment should be reinstated in all schools, the feeling of the paddle on bare flesh would be a great deterrent to some of the smart mouthed delinquents that seem to populate the halls of our schools.

How did you feel about it when you were IN high school?

I don't know how he felt, but I was pretty sore about it.

Seriously, kids these days know that they can get away with intimidation and confrontation so they seem to push harder. When I was in school, I would have had to have picked myself up off the floor from getting punched out by a teacher for that kinda garbage. Then, when I got home after being expelled, I would have gotten it again from my Dad as well as being grounded for the rest of my life if I survived.

[RoyGBiv]

If I'm a parent of a kid in that class, I'd be inclined to have a chat with the boys parents.
That's where the real fault lies.

As for the teacher.... Her handling of this incident (in isolation) would make me feel BETTER about her teaching my kids.

[RottenApple]

Texas schools currently allow for corporal punishment. It has been left up to the school districts themselves to determine if they will administer it or not. HB359 codifies this and allows parents/legal guardians a way to opt out. It passed May 27th, 2011 and has been sent to the Gov.

For my part, I take my queue from my father. If my child has done something that requires a paddling, the school should call me and inform me about it. I will come down to the school and, in front of the teacher, principal, or whomever, administer the paddling myself. If a teacher laws a hand on my child, they better be prepared for me to lay my hands on them.

Incidentally, in my home, the only "crime" worthy of spanking is lying. For every other issue we have other punishments that, for the most part, are quite effective.

[A-R]

Texas schools currently allow for corporal punishment. It has been left up to the school districts themselves to determine if they will administer it or not. HB359 codifies this and allows parents/legal guardians a way to opt out. It passed May 27th, 2011 and has been sent to the Gov.

For my part, I take my queue from my father. If my child has done something that requires a paddling, the school should call me and inform me about it. I will come down to the school and, in front of the teacher, principal, or whomever, administer the paddling myself. If a teacher laws a hand on my child, they better be prepared for me to lay my hands on them.

Incidentally, in my home, the only "crime" worthy of spanking is lying. For every other issue we have other punishments that, for the most part, are quite effective.

I generally agree with you on spanking, but this incident was not a "spanking" nor "corporal punishment" this was - IMHO - a teacher using legally justifiable force to defend herself from the unjustifiable and illegal use of force by a student. This was not "punishment" this was self-defense and easily meets the standards of immediacy and reasonableness as spelled out in Texas law.

[RottenApple]

I generally agree with you on spanking, but this incident was not a "spanking" nor "corporal punishment" this was - IMHO - a teacher using legally justifiable force to defend herself from the unjustifiable and illegal use of force by a student. This was not "punishment" this was self-defense and easily meets the standards of immediacy and reasonableness as spelled out in Texas law.

My apologies for the confusion. I was participating in the "hijacking" of the thread toward the corporal punishment question. I certainly understand and agree that the teacher in this case is defending herself and NOT punishing the student.

[Pawpaw]

Texas schools currently allow for corporal punishment. It has been left up to the school districts themselves to determine if they will administer it or not. HB359 codifies this and allows parents/legal guardians a way to opt out. It passed May 27th, 2011 and has been sent to the Gov.

I can't find HB359 on the Texas Legislature website. It says that bill number is not valid for this session.

For my part, I take my queue from my father. If my child has done something that requires a paddling, the school should call me and inform me about it. I will come down to the school and, in front of the teacher, principal, or whomever, administer the paddling myself. If a teacher laws a hand on my child, they better be prepared for me to lay my hands on them.

Actually, my policy was that if you got one at school, there would've been another when you got home. Since even DODS outlawed corporal punishment, I had to take over.

Incidentally, in my home, the only "crime" worthy of spanking is lying. For every other issue we have other punishments that, for the most part, are quite effective.

[terryg]

I am glad it worked out for her. My only concern is that if he had not backed down, but rather started swinging when she did, that he could probably have seriously injured her. Fortunately, he was truly just a bully and not a actual thug.

[Middle Age Russ]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, TerryG. Even so, she had already adopted the mindset to defend herself and begun putting that in practice, which may have limited the apparent size/strength advantage of the student if he had not backed down. I imagine (speculation only, of course) that she knew exactly where her next strikes would be targeted.

The other issue in my mind is the mindset of the rest of the students in the class. If the incident had escalated, what would their "herd" response be???

[RottenApple]

Actually, my policy was that if you got one at school, there would've been another when you got home. Since even DODS outlawed corporal punishment, I had to take over.

And here I've always been told how you almost came over the principal's desk at that school when we were at Kelly the first time because she paddled me.

[Pawpaw]

Actually, my policy was that if you got one at school, there would've been another when you got home. Since even DODS outlawed corporal punishment, I had to take over.

And here I've always been told how you almost came over the principal's desk at that school when we were at Kelly the first time because she paddled me.

The difference is in whether the punishment was just (deserved) or unjust.

[VMI77]

Based on what the cell phone video showed, the male bad apple student was simply being a bully as others have stated. He used his size to his advantage as he encroached on her personal space, at which time the teacher victim had to retreat. Student continued to advance, despite warnings from the teacher to stop. The teacher's response was measured and effective against the student bully -- a few punches then stopping. Kudos to the teacher for delivering a clearly-needed lesson to the student bully.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want the word or job of "teacher" to be synonymous with "victim". If victims are teaching our kids, we can only expect our kids to polarize into victims and bullies too in fairly short order.

Something a lot of people on this thread seem to be missing is this: the collectivists who run the schools (the administrators --and even some teachers apparently) don't believe in self-defense. I work with a guy whose son got expelled for defending himself against a bully. When he asked what his son was supposed to do if he is attacked the principal said he should roll up in a ball and cover his face to reduce the chance of injury. Not too long ago HuffPo had a piece written by a teacher that lamented people even defending themselves against home invaders and bragging about how she indoctrinates the young children in her classroom with her philosophy.

In contrast, my much older brother beat up a bully who attacked him in school and the principal drove him home so he couldn't be ambushed by the bully's friends, and praised my brother's actions to our parents. My brother didn't get kicked out for "fighting" because in those days administers were still capable of making individual judgments that fitted the punishment to the crime. In all fairness, this isn't solely a school problem, and a good portion of how the schools are now administered is a defensive reaction to the deterioration of standards and values in the larger society.

[RottenApple]

I can't find HB359 on the Texas Legislature website. It says that bill number is not valid for this session.

Sorry. Forgot to address this. http://tinyurl.com/HB359