30.06 is ok,but

[texaspilgrim]

I respect the opinions of others and I respect the 30.06 rule. What I have a problem with is when I can't carry all day because I have to honor the 30.06 sign at the senior citizen community where my in-laws reside. We go there to visit and then we have other things to get done and I am not able to carry for the rest of the day. Yes, I could drive back home and retrieve my gun but it is quite a ways to go. The sign is posted at the gate so the gun can't just be left in the car. As I said I respect their right to post the 30.06, but the effects of their sign stays with me for the whole day until I get home.

[johnson0317]

? Perhaps I am missing something there; also, I am not the voice of authority on this. However! I don't think 30.06 signs apply to personal vehicles. For example, you may not carry in a school, but you may leave it in your car. I think MPA trumps this unless there is some sort of a sign that states they desire you not have one in your car also. Not sure they can do that.

RJ

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm not convinced that signs at parking lot entrances are valid. My understanding is that 30.06 bars you from the "premises," and "premises" is defined in the code as a building or portion thereof; and also that 30.06 specifically allows you to secure your weapon in your car in the parking lot when a building is posted.

If I'm wrong about that, can someone point me to where it is found in the code? If I'm right, then you can simply disarm in the parking lot before entering the building.

[johnson0317]

TAM is the MAN spelled backwards! Wait...that would be Mat. Or Nam.

Whatever, he is the man, and he is probably annoyed. I will put money on his opinion.

RJ

[srothstein]

TAM, the problem is that section 30.06 does not use the word premises, but bars you from carrying on the property posted. So, it is legally possible to post a parking lot and prohibit carry there.

But, and I have posted this before, my opinion is that ti has no effect on someone in a car. The wording of 30.06 only applies to you when you are carrying under the authority of your CHL. I don't see carrying in your car as being under the authority of your CHL since ti is part of 46.02 that it is not illegal to carry in your car. The MPA made it one of the elements of the offense of unlawfully carrying to not be in a car you own or control. Since it is not illegal, and the CHL is an exception (or defense to prosecution) allowing carry when it is illegal, I don't see carrying in your car to be under the authority of your CHL.

There are people on the board who disagree with me on this subject. I am unaware of any court cases that would rule on this matter, so I may be wrong. As a general rule, I do not advise people to be a test case for any law. But in a case like the OP's, I would consider carrying it in the car if he had other business to go to that day. Pointing out that he is clearly not respecting the property owner's wishes, I don't think it is illegal and this might be one of the times where concealed means concealed is a better answer. Of course, parking outside the property would probably be the much better answer, to avoid any question of legal or ethical issues.

[MasterOfNone]

Steve is just too fast. I was going to point out that 30.06 uses the term "property" instead of "premises."
Also note that the "building or portion" definition is specifically included in 46.03 and 46.035. It is not a general definition in the code.

[Oldgringo]

I respect the opinions of others and I respect the 30.06 rule. What I have a problem with is when I can't carry all day because I have to honor the 30.06 sign at the senior citizen community where my in-laws reside. We go there to visit and then we have other things to get done and I am not able to carry for the rest of the day. Yes, I could drive back home and retrieve my gun but it is quite a ways to go. The sign is posted at the gate so the gun can't just be left in the car. As I said I respect their right to post the 30.06, but the effects of their sign stays with me for the whole day until I get home.

The 30.06 sign is what the 30.06 sign is.

Inasmuch as you are not welcome in your in-laws' community, perhaps they can visit you in your community?

[The Annoyed Man]

TAM, the problem is that section 30.06 does not use the word premises, but bars you from carrying on the property posted. So, it is legally possible to post a parking lot and prohibit carry there.

But, and I have posted this before, my opinion is that ti has no effect on someone in a car. The wording of 30.06 only applies to you when you are carrying under the authority of your CHL. I don't see carrying in your car as being under the authority of your CHL since ti is part of 46.02 that it is not illegal to carry in your car. The MPA made it one of the elements of the offense of unlawfully carrying to not be in a car you own or control. Since it is not illegal, and the CHL is an exception (or defense to prosecution) allowing carry when it is illegal, I don't see carrying in your car to be under the authority of your CHL.

Steve, that makes sense to me. I knew that there was some justification there, but I had the code mixed up. I forgot about both the MPA angle and the defense to prosecution angle. This is why I am not a lawyer.

TAM is the MAN spelled backwards! Wait...that would be Mat. Or Nam.

Whatever, he is the man, and he is probably annoyed. I will put money on his opinion.

RJ

RJ, thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'll be placing my money on Steve's opinion.

I can't for the life of me figure out where I got the idea of 30.06 applying only to premises defined as a building or portion thereof.

[MasterOfNone]

? Perhaps I am missing something there; also, I am not the voice of authority on this. However! I don't think 30.06 signs apply to personal vehicles. For example, you may not carry in a school, but you may leave it in your car. I think MPA trumps this unless there is some sort of a sign that states they desire you not have one in your car also. Not sure they can do that.

RJ

RJ,
The reason you can carry in a school parking lot is that the prohibition for schools specifically includes the buildings, not the parking areas. So this is not a conflict between MPA and the school prohibition.

[denwego]

TAM, the problem is that section 30.06 does not use the word premises, but bars you from carrying on the property posted. So, it is legally possible to post a parking lot and prohibit carry there.

But, and I have posted this before, my opinion is that ti has no effect on someone in a car.

§46.035 makes it illegal to openly carry under the authority of a CHL, but doesn't apply in your home, where you don't need a CHL to carry. §30.06 makes it trespassing to carry under the authority of a CHL, but doesn't apply in your car, where you don't need a CHL to carry. It might be uncommon in practice, but it seems simple and clear-cut as well.

[Fedaykin]

A CHL holder MAY NOT leave a gun in the car in a parking lot posted with a valid 30.06 sign.

From the DPS website Frequently Asked Questions: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... hlfaqs.htm

• 54. If I do not want guns in my business, what type of signs should I post?
  If you want to prohibit license holders from carrying concealed handguns on your property, state law requires you to post a sign that says: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun." The sign must be written in both English and Spanish in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and must be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
  
  
  55. If I drive to a shopping mall that does not permit handguns, will I be allowed to park in the parking lot and leave my gun in the car?
  Yes. Handguns may be left in cars in parking lots that do not have signs described above posted.

• Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
  (1) carries a handgun under the authority of Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, on property of another without effective consent; and
  (2) received notice that:
  (A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
  (B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

A parking lot is indeed 'property'. And once the 30.06 sign graces the parking lot entrance, it's now Posted Property.

Long story short, right now you park outside the parking lot, you need the exercise anyway. Some of those 1911's look pretty small up against the guts in some of the pictures you guys post

[TexasGal]

Until something changes, you have no choice other than to park elsewhere and walk or go unarmed until you return home. Very annoying.

[BrianSW99]

A CHL holder MAY NOT leave a gun in the car in a parking lot posted with a valid 30.06 sign.

From the DPS website Frequently Asked Questions: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... hlfaqs.htm

• 54. If I do not want guns in my business, what type of signs should I post?
  If you want to prohibit license holders from carrying concealed handguns on your property, state law requires you to post a sign that says: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun." The sign must be written in both English and Spanish in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and must be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
  
  
  55. If I drive to a shopping mall that does not permit handguns, will I be allowed to park in the parking lot and leave my gun in the car?
  Yes. Handguns may be left in cars in parking lots that do not have signs described above posted.

• Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
  (1) carries a handgun under the authority of Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, on property of another without effective consent; and
  (2) received notice that:
  (A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
  (B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

A parking lot is indeed 'property'. And once the 30.06 sign graces the parking lot entrance, it's now Posted Property.

Long story short, right now you park outside the parking lot, you need the exercise anyway. Some of those 1911's look pretty small up against the guts in some of the pictures you guys post

I know the DPS page says otherwise, but I personally agree with srothstein that I don't think the 30.06 sign would apply inside a vehicle now that we have the MPA. I believe there was also a thread here recently where someone posted a response from the DPS where they conceded that someone could carry under the MPA rather than their CHL. That was in response to a question whether someone could carry a semi-auto in their car under MPA even though they are licensed for a revolver.

Brian

[texaspilgrim]

Thanks guys. It would be nice if they could make the laws a little more easy to follow. I don't like having to guess with something that could land me in jail if I guess wrong.

[RPB]

A CHL holder MAY NOT leave a gun in the car in a parking lot posted with a valid 30.06 sign.

From the DPS website Frequently Asked Questions: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... hlfaqs.htm

• 54. If I do not want guns in my business, what type of signs should I post?
  If you want to prohibit license holders from carrying concealed handguns on your property, state law requires you to post a sign that says: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun." The sign must be written in both English and Spanish in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and must be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
  
  
  55. If I drive to a shopping mall that does not permit handguns, will I be allowed to park in the parking lot and leave my gun in the car?
  Yes. Handguns may be left in cars in parking lots that do not have signs described above posted.

• Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
  (1) carries a handgun under the authority of Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, on property of another without effective consent; and
  (2) received notice that:
  (A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
  (B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

A parking lot is indeed 'property'. And once the 30.06 sign graces the parking lot entrance, it's now Posted Property.

Long story short, right now you park outside the parking lot, you need the exercise anyway. Some of those 1911's look pretty small up against the guts in some of the pictures you guys post

Just a note: ( Article 4413(29ee) is no longer a law)
No CHL "(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes"

Still

This needs fixin'

That's the "penalty" for going through background checks and getting a CHL?

Since 30.06 ONLY applies to CHLs, not to MPA carriers in THEIR cars ... people without a license carrying guns in cars are legal in a 30.06 posted lot, but CHLs are not?

Sooooo on those days leave the CHL at home or give to the wife, and just have the gun in the car under the MPA so you are legal?

Have the wife keep your CHL in her purse to be sure you aren't using the CHL?

I understand Steve's post, makes sense ... just don't carry under your CHL and a 30.06 sign isn't "addressed to you"
If you carry past a 30.06 while carrying under a CHL, it violates law ... so don't ... just carry under the MPA in the car...until you are out of the parking lot.. No law against that if it's only posted with a 30.06 sign which is not addressed to MPA carriers.

then after leaving the lot, ask your wife if you may please have your CHL back so you can re-arm, if you have been good, she'll probably let you.

Needs fixin' in the legislature, like they fixed the "failure to identify" penalty BECAUSE it penalized CHLs <more than> non-chls carrying under the MPA who weren't required to show a CHL for having a gun in the car.. might be a good "first bill to be heard" 2 years from now to get legislature back on topics we need heard