9mm effectivness

[stroo]

TX Investigator:

You stated "if I am confident that I can make a head shot I would not hesitate to do so." That sure sounds like advocating head shots before COM. I am glad you don't teach that!!

Your sarcasm is misplaced and unwelcome.

[HighVelocity]

Let's keep this thread on topic please. "The effectiveness of the 9mm round". Is the subject.

[jbirds1210]

I am a bit late on this.....sorry.

I carry and trust that my 124gr Gold Dots will do their part if I steer them correctly. I feel very comfortable carrying either a 9mm or a fouty S&W caliber. I will still take a rifle anyday over either of them if I had the choice.

Jason

[stroo]

TX Investigator:
As I thought about this last night, I have to apologize if I offended you in some way. I was only trying to make two points being (1) that shot placement matters more that caliber when talking 9mm up and (2) that head shots should be taken as a last resort after COM has failed or if it is the only shot you have.

It appears that I misread your statement as a recommendation to take headshots as a first resort. I am glad you don't teach that since every training I have had and every reputable source I have talked to recommend shooting COM first. Again, if I offended you, I am sorry.

[txinvestigator]

TX Investigator:
As I thought about this last night, I have to apologize if I offended you in some way. I was only trying to make two points being (1) that shot placement matters more that caliber when talking 9mm up and (2) that head shots should be taken as a last resort after COM has failed or if it is the only shot you have.

I agree but add 1 more; if the BG needs to be instantaneously "shut off" such as holding a family member as a shield with a deadly weapon, etc.

It appears that I misread your statement as a recommendation to take headshots as a first resort. I am glad you don't teach that since every training I have had and every reputable source I have talked to recommend shooting COM first. Again, if I offended you, I am sorry.

I am not offended, but thanks. Someone wondered why the person would have made a head shot, and my point is that people confident with that might do so. I failed to add that my confidence in being able to make that shot would be dependant on many things in that particular situation. Make sense?

[Diode]

"Nothing is everything, but everything is something." Massad Ayoob

Placement is everything. As far as the medical experts are concerned only a shot in the "lower" part of the brain or the spinal column is an "instant stop."
A lot of information here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/ about penetration etc. . .

Ah the age old Small and fast vs. Big and slow. For me when I read Massad's review of the Dade county shoot out I wanted a bigger bullet, so did the FBI and most State Police (or just faster .357sig). Now I see the Military is considering the .45 again?

Someone in here told me the best carry weapon is the one you'll carry. I'll always remember that!
j

[carlson1]

Someone in here told me the best carry weapon is the one you'll carry. I'll always remember that!

That is an EXCELLENT statement. I have made my transition from the .45 to the 9mm. That is not to say I do not miss the .45, but I am getting a little more comfortable with 9mm.

[HighVelocity]

FWIW, I chronographed the Speer 124gr +P Gold Dots out of my Glock 26 and my Kahr MK9 and the 5 shot avg velocity was 1,232fps from the Glock and 1,200fps from the Kahr. That's a lot of energy from such tiny guns. Accuracy? No problem.

[Skiprr]

HV:

You should stand back farther than three feet from the target for practical grouping purposes. Ahem.



(Just kidding. )

Oh, and for what it's worth, my Glock 27 will group nowhere near that tightly.

[gregthehand]

"A bullet never lies." This guy was probably using some very old ammo. It happens, just a few days ago I think I saw a post on here where some guy's weapon went off in a bathroom and it didn't even penetrate the wall. CYCLE YOUR CARRY AMMO OUT!!!

[AV8R]

"A bullet never lies." This guy was probably using some very old ammo. It happens, just a few days ago I think I saw a post on here where some guy's weapon went off in a bathroom and it didn't even penetrate the wall. CYCLE YOUR CARRY AMMO OUT!!! :fire

Another possibility is damp powder. One of the first things I learned living in third-world areas was to be sure ammo had sealed primers and bullets, and if not, to do it myself right out of the box. Unsealed ammo steadily degrades when exposed to heat and humidity, or perspiration. Most premium defense ammo (e.g., Speer GD) is factory sealed, but not all. Cycling ammo is a very good thing, especially if you don't live up here on the high plains.

[Dirt Dauber]

IMHO any cal. would be fine. I'm a "shot placement " over size of cal. type of guy. As TX stated strange things happen. If you are proficient with a small cal. and "can't hit a side of a barn" with a large cal. it seems you would go with your strong points. I have a 40 getting a 45 looking for a 9, so go figure, I'm a confused shopper!! (actually I like getting new guns!)

[TX Rancher]

I’m sure we’ve all heard the stories of the magic one shot stop 9’s that stopped the BG instantly, and the druggie that took 8 rounds of 45 and kept coming. We’ve also heard the same story with the 9 & 45 swapping roles.

To me, both have proven themselves over time to be reliable, reasonably good stopping power pistol cartridges. They’re both easy to find anywhere in the US, and for international travel, the 9 is in just about every country in the world.

But if I had my choice of what to carry for personal defense, it wouldn’t be a pistol anyway. It would be something in 30 cal with a short barrel…maybe the Springfield SOCOM or an AK variant. The pistol would be relegated to backup to cover the times the rifle ran dry and I didn’t have time to reload.

But carrying a rifle in today’s society is not generally accepted. So for a concealed carry weapon, what to carry? I agree with the posters who’ve said “It’s what you will carry�.

You’re at the outside teller machine, and you see 2 big burly guys approach. One of them pulls out a knife and not so politely explains he’s going to castrate you after he’s taken all your money. This is not the time to inform him you’re a concealed permit holder and have a 454 Casual at home that’s capable of stopping elephants, rhinos, and dually pickup trucks . I put forward you would be much better to present your short barreled 9 mm (or for that mater even a 380). Heck, a metal ball point pen would be better then the pistol at home!

I also agree that shot placement is second only to “what you will carry� on the priority list, and that implies “What you will practice with�. Quite awhile back, I bought a Glock 23 (40 Cal) and carried it for a long time. I liked the stopping power of the 40, and I liked the magazine capacity. So my 1911 ended up spending a lot of time in the safe. But as my arthritis has proceeded to get worse, I find I can’t tolerate range time with the 40. I like the G23 ergonomics, so I switched to the G19 (9mm). I don’t feel under-gunned with the 9 mm. I practice often, and I have confidence in my shot placement capability (to include head shots). I recently purchased a G26 and was surprised at how much I like it. Now when I need a concealed weapon carried IWB, my Kimber Ultra has competition (although being biased towards the 45, the Kimber normally wins ).

Now I don’t want to lose my rights to rant about how great the 45 is, so let me state over the years, my trusty 45’s have been carried more then any other caliber and I must admit it has a special place in my mind. But that’s more personal preference/experience then a preponderance of scientific data.

As stated earlier, if I had my choice, I would carry a rifle…

[AV8R]

+1

[Geister]

I've never seen any benefit of using a 9mm when one can go for a .45. More ammo with the 9mm? Sure, but the .45 is more powerful anyway.

I believe the only strong argument for the 9mm is the fact that 9mm pistols can be built smaller.