9mm effectivness

[nitrogen]

what kind of handgun do you carry? If it's a subcompact with a 3" barrel, youre better off with 9mm hollowpoints (just ask the Box of Truth)

.40 does better out of longer barrels (longer than 4" i think)

[G.C.Montgomery]

I trained in the Army for two in the heart, one in the head. Re-apply if necessary. Not bad advice if you ask me.

That's the one thing that deadly force has over all other force options. Invariably, continuous reapplication of said force (blunt objects, guns or knives) will eventually have the desired effect.

[casselthief]

there's gotta be some more, "That's usin' yer head." jokes in here somewhere!

This story just confirms something I have always believed. My wife is from Port Arthur and can be very hard headed. Must be the something in the air in Port Arthur that makes people that way. This story proves my suspicions.

ahthankyou!

I saw a guy in the ER one time just a-riddled with 9mm ball ammo. apparently, in thug school, you don't learn about +P and JHPs and stuff.
anyway, every single one of them went through a car door, and lodged itself in him. caused a lot of damage, jacked the dude up for a good while.
he lived though, thank you medical technology!

just the angle alone could cause the bullet to not penetrate and get lodged, maybe it ricocheted, went through something, who knows...

[Skiprr]

He walked out of the hospital within a few days with perscriptions for pain, infection and manic depression.

Like TX says, bullets can do strange things. But that story... Wow. His odds of winning the lottery had to be far better than the odds of that outcome.

[Glockamolie]

That guy could pass for a young Eddie Murphy! All I could think when I saw his picture was Mr. Robinson's Neighborhood or Gumby.

Of course, his unbiased mother says, "He's a good kid."

[G.C.Montgomery]

Posted below...another one for the books on the effectiveness, or lack there of, of handguns with respect to the human skull. Freddie Felon, attempting to take the easy way out, couldn't get suicide right and was forced to try again. Happens more than most would think.

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Man rapes Suffield girl, kills himself
Former boyfriend leads officers on car chase in Portage County. Shots fired after auto gets stuck
By Connie Bloom
Beacon Journal staff writer

A former boyfriend raped a 17-year-old Suffield Township girl then shot himself to death after a police pursuit Tuesday, investigators said.
Douglas D. O'Donnell, 20, of the 1900 block of Armon Street Northeast in Canton was pronounced dead at Akron City Hospital at 4:52 p.m., Portage County Sheriff Duane Kaley said.

Portage County dispatchers received a 911 call at 3 p.m. from the victim. She told a dispatcher that O'Donnell entered the Randolph Road home through an unlocked door. Kaley said O'Donnell was armed with a handgun, Taser and duct tape. The man subdued the teen and raped her, Kaley said. Portage County sheriff's deputies and detectives, Mogadore police and troopers from the State Highway Patrol responded to the teen's call for help.

Kaley said the officers pursued O'Donnell for about three miles from Randolph Road to U.S. Route 224 and Congress Lake Road.
Police say O'Donnell's vehicle went off the road on Route 224 and got stuck. Kaley said O'Donnell then shot himself twice with the handgun that investigators believe was used in the rape. O'Donnell was transported to Akron City Hospital where he was pronounced dead. His body was taken to the Summit County Medical Examiner's Office. An autopsy was scheduled to be conducted today, Kaley said.

Police have not released the name of the victim.
``She's shook up,'' Kaley said. ``It's been a traumatic day for her.
``Physically, I think she's OK.'' The victim was treated at an undisclosed hospital and released. Detectives remained at both crime scenes late Tuesday night. ``We'll be up half the night,'' Kaley said. ``There's no suspect to prosecute, but we'll be tying up loose ends and getting some closure tonight.''

[Venus Pax]

I'm originally from Port Arthur. I would never move back there. Nasty place. The hard-headed young man feature in the article is, unfortunately, the norm in that little city.

[Chris]

O'Donnell then shot himself twice with the handgun that investigators believe was used in the rape.

depends on how you tell the story, and what details you know. i know of a few multi-shot suicides. usually those are to the chest. one i recall was done with a newly purchased colt .45. she fired twice to the chest.

i worked one where a guy put the barrel to the roof of his mouth and fired. it was a full-house .357 magnum round. it didn't clear the skull. in fact, it looked like one side of his face shifted up some. very odd thing to see, and an image i'll likely not forget anytime soon, even though this happened 10 years ago. there was a clean hole in the roof of the mouth, and a lot of the teeth were destroyed; likely from recoil and muzzle blast. bleeding was just massive. guy is still alive today.

one guy was intending on killing his girlfriend, then himself. after seeing that it took 3 head shots to completely finish her off, he felt it wasn't as clean as he'd liked, and changed his mind to do the same to himself.

i've seen crime scene photos of point blank head shots from a shotgun that just peel the skin off. if you want to get the job done, a 7mm magnum is the way to go. very little left after that.

while this may sound morbid, it goes along with what's being discussed. bullets are little tiny objects. 115 to 230 grains is not a lot of mass. pistol bullets travel far slower than rifle bullets. a tiny little object can easily be deflected. consider the difference in velocity from a rifle and pistol though. i could definitely see how a bullet could lodge in a skull and not penetrate.

we fired through car windshields once. shooting from outside in, the bullets deflect up. this is laminated glass where a bullet should conceivably zip right through, but there is just enough pressure behind the glass to deflect the bullet up a few inches from the windshield to the headrest. shooting from outside in, it's the exact opposite; bullet deflects down. in doing this, a variety of windshields were used, and several pistol calibers, shotguns, and .223 rifles were used. all had the same results. that tiny rake in the windshield deflects the bullets.

what's my point? i will continue to carry my 9mm because i know i can hit exactly what i'm aiming at. i don't care if it goes through, or if it lodges in your head, so long as whatever is being done against me stops immediately. 9mm is my favorite pistol caliber, and will continue to be.

[stroo]

TX Investigator,

Heads are small targets, particularly considering that you really only have a small area on the head to hit to shut a BG down. That makes it hard target to hit in the right spot under pressure, even by skilled shooters. If I am in his position and have a COM shot, that's what I am going to take first. If that doesn't work, then I'll try the harder shot.

Who knows, maybe he did aim COM and he missed those, then put one in the guys forehead. Any as someone else said, it did stop the fight.

[G.C.Montgomery]

O'Donnell then shot himself twice with the handgun that investigators believe was used in the rape.

depends on how you tell the story, and what details you know...

I posted the story, not to say 9mm was a bad choice but, to illustrate that handguns in general are not a magic wands. The point is, the results of shooting someone are often not what many of us have come to expect because of movies, TV and the gunstore commandos we all know. Suicides, as you know, are no different. I have read coroner and police report details of people shooting themselves in the head twice. But, you are right, most of the time a suicide involving multiple gunshot wounds is from the "victim" choosing to shoot his/herself in the chest. Strangely, most such reports I've seen were women.

...I will continue to carry my 9mm because i know i can hit exactly what i'm aiming at. i don't care if it goes through, or if it lodges in your head, so long as whatever is being done against me stops immediately. 9mm is my favorite pistol caliber, and will continue to be.

I agree 100%...I too carry 9mm when I carry my Glocks. I don't feel any less armed than when I carry a .45cal 1911.

[G.C.Montgomery]

Oh Chris, you mentioned auto-glass and that reminded me of a class where we tested typical auto-glass from side and rear windows? Surprisingly, the glass on car doors and the rear window will completely deflect a bullet if the angle is right. We expected this from the laminated glass that makes up windshields but consistently bouncing .45's off side windows was a new one.

[txinvestigator]

TX Investigator,

Heads are small targets, particularly considering that you really only have a small area on the head to hit to shut a BG down.

That makes it hard target to hit in the right spot under pressure, even by skilled shooters.

[heavy sarcasm] Really? I never would have guessed. [/heavy sarcasm] I am fully aware of and teach that. What I wrote does not contradict that.

Who knows, maybe he did aim COM and he missed those, then put one in the guys forehead. Any as someone else said, it did stop the fight.

Perhaps he simply shot high from his intended POA and hit him in the head. I agree, we don't know where his POA was.

[ea40ss]

Wow, two pages! Relax everyone. I don't really have an issue with the 9mm. I know folks who carry a .32 and a .22 and feel perfectly comfortable. I just thought it was an amazing story.

I remember seeing a show on tv, not csi, I think it was called Detectives. not sure though. A guy went to a hotel room to commit suicide with a 12 gauge. Well the first shot to the head didn't do it. The guy woke up later and finished the job with the second shot. OUCH

Yes guns and bullets can, and do, wierd things.

I will feel perfectly comfortable with a 9mm.

Thanks and have a wonderful and safe Christmas everyone!

Eric

[loosecannon]

Take it from an old teacher--the woods are full of bone heads. That's why I believe: If you try to teach a pig to sing, you waste your time and annoy the pig.

[KBCraig]

O'Donnell then shot himself twice with the handgun that investigators believe was used in the rape.

depends on how you tell the story, and what details you know. i know of a few multi-shot suicides.

Were they enemies of Billie Sol Estes?