the long lost birth certificate

[baldeagle]

Frankly, I don't understand how the issue got started to begin with. His mother was an American. I would think that would make him an American regardless of where he was born.

The issue is not whether he's an American citizen. I don't think most people doubt that. The question is about whether he's Natural Born on American soil, which is what the requirement is for being president.

That's not how I read the Constitution. To me Natural Born means born to American citizens, whereever they may reside.

[The Mad Moderate]

Frankly, I don't understand how the issue got started to begin with. His mother was an American. I would think that would make him an American regardless of where he was born.

The issue is not whether he's an American citizen. I don't think most people doubt that. The question is about whether he's Natural Born on American soil, which is what the requirement is for being president.

That's not how I read the Constitution. To me Natural Born means born to American citizens, whereever they may reside.

"natural Born" has never been defined in a court as far as i know

[03Lightningrocks]

Come on folks I said if the birth certificate/ eligibly issues is an issue for you its because you're an idiot or racist. I stand by that. I said earlier there are many good and valid reason to criticize this President and this is not one of the. if you want to call him out on his economic policy or foreign policy I would be inclined to agree. I did not suggest any criticism of the president is race related, just on this particular issue I think it plays a large role. Name one President in the past 100 years who has had to deal with something like this for 2 1/2 years after it was legally settled.

Is this guy a racist? How about this guy? How about this guy? (And please don't insult us with your response.)

[Purplehood]

The whole "birther" issue is one that has been drummed-up and rehashed by the left-wing from the very beginning.

I briefly recall thinking that it may have some merit back in the Democratic primaries. Once I realized that Hillary Clinton couldn't find any evidence that BO was anything other than a Natural-born Citizen, I gave up that notion. Hillary REALLY wanted to be President, and if anybody can dig up secrets that woman can.

Now the issue is simply a way to make the typical right-wing conservative look like an idiot. Not only to the left-wingers, but to the majority of sensible Centrists and Conservatives in this country.

I always thought that Bush Jr was a master of the diversionary tactic, but the machinations of the Obama political-machine sometimes leave me speechless.

My real concern is that Donald Trump is/was a patsy set-up by the left-wing to foist on the Tea-Party and Consevatives in general. He appears to have lost momentum with the apparent de-bunking of the birther issue. I admit that I will watch carefully to see if he fades into the sunset as a Presidential hopeful, or if the Left-wing media somehow resurrects him in the hope that he remains their candidate for the Republican primary.

I don't give a rats-patootie about BO's BC. I do give one about his sheer audacity and desire to eliminate the US as a National Entity and see it become a protectorate of the United Nations.

[jimlongley]

My real concern is that Donald Trump is/was a patsy set-up by the left-wing to foist on the Tea-Party and Consevatives in general. He appears to have lost momentum with the apparent de-bunking of the birther issue. I admit that I will watch carefully to see if he fades into the sunset as a Presidential hopeful, or if the Left-wing media somehow resurrects him in the hope that he remains their candidate for the Republican primary.

I don't give a rats-patootie about BO's BC. I do give one about his sheer audacity and desire to eliminate the US as a National Entity and see it become a protectorate of the United Nations.

I have to agree, and wonder if the whole delay in releasing it was just a stratagem devised long ago, to make whichever candidate he )or more likely they) saw as a serious threat, appear to be a total fool.

I have never given one iota of thought to whether bambam was a legitimate citizen, all that ever concerned me from day one, and it is reflected by my posts going back to his candidacy, is that he is a Chicago politician, and by definition that make him a liar and a cheat, and he has surrounded himself with Chicago politicians (even including Hilly) [which would not be all that unusual politically, they all bring in friends and acquaintances] and that is the threat to the rest of us.

[sugar land dave]

That's not how I read the Constitution. To me Natural Born means born to American citizens, whereever they may reside.

"natural Born" has never been defined in a court as far as i know

The Constitution on birth requirement for President:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

He is a citizen, is he not? Over 35? Been here 14 years?

[sjfcontrol]

The Constitution on birth requirement for President:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

He is a citizen, is he not? Over 35? Been here 14 years?

Well, I would interpret that as meaning if the candidate was NOT a "natural born Citizen", that he had to be a Citizen (of any form) at the time of the signing of the Constitution. Few of those remain!

[sugar land dave]

The Constitution on birth requirement for President:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

He is a citizen, is he not? Over 35? Been here 14 years?

Well, I would interpret that as meaning if the candidate was NOT a "natural born Citizen", that he had to be a Citizen (of any form) at the time of the signing of the Constitution. Few of those remain!

I'm still here. Oh wait! What year is this? Why isn't this thread locked yet?

[VMI77]

Come on folks I said if the birth certificate/ eligibly issues is an issue for you its because you're an idiot or racist. I stand by that. I said earlier there are many good and valid reason to criticize this President and this is not one of the. if you want to call him out on his economic policy or foreign policy I would be inclined to agree. I did not suggest any criticism of the president is race related, just on this particular issue I think it plays a large role. Name one President in the past 100 years who has had to deal with something like this for 2 1/2 years after it was legally settled.

You're misrepresenting the issue. It has never been legally settled (meaning in a court of law.) It may have been settled in your mind, but it obviously hasn't been settled in others'.

That is not true, ask Orly Taitz she fled numerous lawsuits in the matter and all were dismissed due to lack of evidence and she was even bared from filing further lawsuits in the matter.

(edited to include proper spelling of name)

Since I had never heard of her, I had to google Orly Taitz. I'll admit, I haven't done extensive research, but I didn't see anything that indicated that the matter of the birth certificate had been "legally settled" as you claim. Either your standard of proof is exceedingly low or you simply wish this issue would go away and are willing to accept any hint of proof at all.

The fact that courts dismiss lawsuits (which happens all the time) is proof of nothing other than that the court simply didn't want to deal with the case. There can be many reasons for that; lack of standing, wrong venue, political motivations of the judge, pressure from the court's superiors, improperly filed claims, improperly stated grounds for the lawsuit, the court agreed with the demurrers, etc., etc.

Since I don't really care about this issue I'm not going to spend a ton of time researching it, but I haven't found a single case where a court adjudged Obama's birth certificate to be valid. Since I'm unfamiliar with this type of issue, I don't even know if birth certificates can be challenged in court, much less whether or not a court has ever ruled on the validity of a birth certificate.

Frankly, I don't understand how the issue got started to begin with. His mother was an American. I would think that would make him an American regardless of where he was born. After all, it would seem passingly silly to claim that a person born in Paris, France to American parents working for a US corporation with French offices was not an American citizen. The issue of someone born to parents with two different nationalities is a bit less clear, and I am unfamiliar with the legalities of it, so I could be wrong. But i believe that if one parent has American citizenship, then the children of that marriage do as well.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that this really isn't an issue with where Obama was born. The issue has never really been about whether he was an American (otherwise his American mother would settle the issue for most). The issue has been a political jabbing stick to pick away at his Presidency and gain an advantage that might translate into votes. Frankly, no matter how irritating anyone might find an issue that dogs one of their political favorites, the issue will never go away, no matter how much solid proof is adduced, unless the ones who promote the issue decide there is no longer any advantage to be gained by pushing it. That advantage is measured by polls, and recent polls showed almost 50% of the public at least having questions about Obama's citizenship. That is the real reason that Obama released his birth certificate - votes. And that is the reason that releasing the birth certificate had little impact on the people pushing the issue. It remains to be seen, through polling, whether the release resolved the issue of half the population questioning his citizenship. If the numbers now drop precipitously, then Obama will ignore further cries for the release of documents.

You made a long reasoned post appealing to logic and got a reply that ignored everything but the one thing most irrelevant to your point. You're dealing with a "true believer" in the Eric Hoffer sense. True believers don't reply to logic and reason unless the particular logic supports whatever belief they're attached to. Terms like "racist" and "idiot" and "tin foil hat conspiracy theorist" are only used to dismiss and disparage: they are argumentum ad hominem, the most emotional, and perhaps least sophisticated, of all the logical fallacies, and signal either an inability or an unwillingness to engage in reasoned debate.

[The Mad Moderate]

Peace out folks. Im done with this one.

[sjfcontrol]

The Constitution on birth requirement for President:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

He is a citizen, is he not? Over 35? Been here 14 years?

Well, I would interpret that as meaning if the candidate was NOT a "natural born Citizen", that he had to be a Citizen (of any form) at the time of the signing of the Constitution. Few of those remain!

I'm still here. Oh wait! What year is this? Why isn't this thread locked yet?

Are you implying you were a citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution?

[Shoot Straight]

The whole "birther" issue is one that has been drummed-up and rehashed by the left-wing from the very beginning.

It works, People are still taking the bait, distracting them from the important issues.

[VMI77]

The whole "birther" issue is one that has been drummed-up and rehashed by the left-wing from the very beginning.

It works, People are still taking the bait, distracting them from the important issues.

That may be true, but talking about "distracting [people]...from the important issues" seems to suggest that there would be alternatives if people weren't distracted, and that this one additional issue is one more than people can process. The country was focused in 2008 and overwhelmingly against the banker bailout, but Bush, McCain, and Obama all were for it, and Congress ignored what the people wanted and voted for it anyway. To date there has been zero accountability for those responsible. What do you think is going to change in 2012?

[fulano]

Peace out folks. Im done with this one.

That horse is not dead! It is up and running toward a special prosecutor....and Orly is riding it.

http://azdailysun.com/news/national/art ... 76729.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sugar land dave]

I'm still here. Oh wait! What year is this? Why isn't this thread locked yet?

Are you implying you were a citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution?

Looks like my attempt at humor missed the mark in this politically charged thread.